Hacker News Reader

Comment by ddebernardy | Hacker News Reader

I don't think the future is going to be a better place either, but I don't buy for an instant that it's a good reason for you to not have kids, or the actual reason you don't have any. Firstly, life is pointless and meaningless without children, or as a fallback without taking care of others. And secondly, why should you, who are aware of this, be the ones ending up not reproducing, essentially mimicking the storyline behind Idiocracy on steroids?

IMHO you've other reasons to work out, and the reasons you put forward are only an excuse.

View on HN

> Firstly, life is pointless and meaningless without children

That seems like a very personal opinion you should be stating with much less certainty about other people's lives.

There's more to what GP said. It took me a while to figure it out:

> life is pointless and meaningless without children, or as a fallback without taking care of others

This implies that the type of people who genuinely don't want to have kids, and don't have some circumstance in life holding them back from having kids, don't care about others. It's not the first time I've heard it, but I disagree with it. It's the yuppie stereotype. It's wrong because there are parents who don't care very much about others, and people who choose to not have children that care a great deal about others.

It is, however, not quite as wrong as saying that people who don't have kids don't GAF, full stop.

> This implies that the type of people who genuinely don't want to have kids (...) don't care about others

Not the slightest. It merely raises that those whose life doesn't revolve around putting a smile on someone else's face are living a rather unfulfilling life. Others here would usually, but not necessarily, be your children, family circles, etc.

Yeah, I get enough of this as is - outside of HN.

It still blows me away how having a kid is used both as a "meaning of life" play and a "look at how much money I have" play (akin to humble bragging about a $70k BMW in the driveway). During my time living in Los Altos with three other Google engineers (in the same house) this was common place in our neighborhood.

Homer Simpson has the best reason to enjoy having kids: "Kids are the best; you can teach them to hate the things you hate."

After multiple friends of mine had kids, they all seem to agree that kids can also teach you to hate everything you once enjoyed.

I mean, you're humblebragging about different things (Los Altos, Google), not sure the subject really matters

I was giving location as context for my perspective / statement...

I was (too subtly) making the point that perhaps it's the location and not kids-as-trophies per se. Possibly your experience in the 3rd richest zip code in the nation isn't generalizable to the rest of the world?

>Possibly your experience in the 3rd richest zip code in the nation isn't generalizable to the rest of the world?

Your experience anywhere in the US isn't generalizable to the rest of the world. Just like your experience in China or South Africa isn't generalizable to the rest of the world. Which is why the parent comment pointed out his location to give some context.

Making a post like that without mentioning the location is absurd and makes things more confusing for everyone.

> IMHO you've other reasons to work out, and the reasons you put forward are only an excuse.

Well, I've only put one reason forward. Of course there are more reasons but they all center on one core philosophy:

Having kids should never be about me. I shouldn't have children because I want to better my life for myself. Having kids should be viewed from the perspective of the child. Will they live a life so fruitful and free from suffering, that they themselves would choose to be born again if given the option?

“Life is meaningless without children”

Citation requested. I dont want kids because I am not convinced life will be that good for them. You dont get to question my reasoning for that. Instead, consider why rational, educated people might come to that point.

You forgot the second part of the sentence. As to data, there's plenty of evidence in the wild that caring for others and having quality relationships (with your children family, friends, whoever) have mental and physical health benefits.

Movie plots are not reality and don't make for compelling arguments.

As someone who plans to adopt kids rather than adding another human to an overcrowded planet, people who act like life is meaningless without reproducing strike me incredibly narrow-minded.

A third point as well -- humans are not manifest destiny. There is no imperative for our continued existence in this universe, so we have no obligation to reproduce -- any reason to reproduce you can think of is imagined by a brain evolved from millennia of creatures that decided to reproduce: selection bias.

I think you missed a part of what I wrote. By deciding to care for adopted kids you're firmly into the caring for others territory I put forward.

As a counter point, why should he/she bring another human in this world, fully knowing that the quality of life is going down?

And, there are already 7B+ people in this planet, why add more?

I get that especially families in some regions having countless kids is probably not helping all of us. But not wanting kids to make the world a better place is having it backwards. We need to make the world a better place precisely for our kids.

Leaving a mark by keeping our evolutionary branch going (aka kids, their kids and so on) is pretty much the only task we got from life. Everything else we are, feel and have accomplished exists exclusively to achieve this goal and won't have mattered the day the last of whatever we consider "us" dies.

A less-good-than-it-would-have-been-30-years-ago life can still be a good life, easily.

Would you rather be born in the year 2050 or never exist at all?

Can't help but feel like if I wasn't alive I really wouldn't care either way, since you know, I don't exist

As a counter point, why should he/she bring another human in this world

Because we don't know that at all? Jesus, what a depressing comment.

> Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Their Lives, Survey Finds

> life is pointless and meaningless without children

This view won't be well received on a forum with a lot of millennials and Gen-z, but as a millennial myself (late 30s, though) without kids, I would actually agree with you to an extent.

I've already lived and travelled the world. I've volunteered a bit. I've worked and saved money and can afford what I want. And none of these things really do matter the older I get. And I notice that amongst my friends, those with kids, seem to go through life with more of a purpose than us without any kids or even long term partners.

Life seems kind of pointless with or without kids to me, but I think that kids give individuals something to occupy their time, and without that time sink, life becomes boring.

Nonetheless - and this won't go over well - I would like kids and a family - but I've already seen several male friends and relatives utterly destroyed by the US family courts / divorce initiated by their wives, and I'd rather be bored but financially and emotionally 'safe' than completely ruined.

I am 22 and I have the same opinion as yours.

I didn't travel around the world yet but I've already saved some money and can live comfortably alone.

Having a kid seems like an economical suicide for me at the moment. However - I'm scared about what my life will look like when I'll be old and vulnerable. A family help your social life and may allow you to feel safer when you'll start to have some illness.

My Utopian life goal would be to find a long term partner in my 30s and have a sudden death before I start to get mentally ill.

Get a dog instead. All the benefits and almost none of the drawbacks.

If I may nitpick, you cut the quoted sentence in half.

And to expand on what you've noticed yourself, as I wrote in a separate answer, there's plenty of data to support that caring for others is not only fulfilling but also gives health benefits to boot.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com