Comment by sridca | Hacker News Reader

Comment by sridca | Hacker News Reader

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Do a bit of reading by the proponents of gratitude and you'll see that it is not the same as appreciation. For example, here's a quote from a link someone else posted on this thread:

  People feel and express gratitude in multiple ways. 
  They can apply it to the past (retrieving positive 
  memories and being thankful for elements of 
  childhood or past blessings), the present (not 
  taking good fortune for granted as it comes), and 
  the future (maintaining a hopeful and optimistic 
  attitude).

Would you use "appreciation" to describe that?

Also here are the ways to cultivate gratitude per that same link:

  Write a thank-you note.   
  Thank someone mentally.
  Keep a gratitude journal. 
  Count your blessings. 
  Pray. 
  Meditate.

Is that how you'd describe "appreciation"? The spiritualists, and their secular friends, choose "gratitude" for a reason--they recommend a specific emotional state.

Personally in my mind appreciation is a matter of fact straightforward activity of ongoing enjoyment (of activities, things, events, people, etc.). Gratitude is not even close to that as illustrated above ... one I find little to no value in exemplifying (as there are superior ways of experiencing life such as appreciating being alive having a cup of coffee on a sunny terrace!).

> I honestly don't see how appreciating and returning kindness could be objectionable

Where did I write that they are objectionable? I said that gratitude is ineffective when you could be going straight to the root cause of resentment and dislodging it from your life.

You're raising a lot of interesting points; I appreciate it! (No pun intended)

I think that meditation might be better viewed as a practical tool that assists in doing what you are suggesting. The idea would be that meditation trains you to focus on the present, objective reality which would in turn make you more likely to appreciate a cup of coffee. My understanding is that at least in the Buddhist tradition that is the stated purpose of the basic breathing meditation that most people are familiar with.

Thats not to say that it might not be an ineffective tool, but I don't think its necessarily contrary to the approach that you are talking about.

Could you explain more about how you would approach things as opposed to gratitude? I think I'm understanding now what you are getting at, but I'm not sure I'm understanding the practical steps that you are advocating as an alternative to meditation.

> Could you explain more about how you would approach things as opposed to gratitude? I think I'm understanding now what you are getting at, but I'm not sure I'm understanding the practical steps that you are advocating as an alternative to meditation.

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19905620

> Write a thank-you note.

> Thank someone mentally.

> Keep a gratitude journal.

> Count your blessings.

> Pray.

> Meditate.

I don't really see the first two things as being specifically spiritual, and I don't see it as much of a stretch to see that they can help with mental well-being. The third one is somewhat recursive, so I obviously can't argue that it isn't specific to gratitude.

The next two definitely feel spiritual, but I feel like they could pretty easily be expressed with "appreciation" and still be spiritual, e.g. "appreciate your blessings" or "appreciate the presence of god".

I'll be honest and say that from my naive understanding of meditation, I don't exactly know how it falls into the "gratitude" bucket. If I were asked to describe what "meditation" is in the spiritual sense, I definitely would have been more like to use the word "appreciation" than "gratitude", e.g. "appreciate one's place in the universe", so I don't really know enough to understand the distinction here.

Overall, to me, this list seems to be a mix of things that are overtly or mostly spiritual and things that don't seem particularly spiritual to me. Maybe it's just my lack of knowledge about this sort of topic, but I'm still not seeing any huge distinction between the two terms based off of those quotes. I definitely agree that from them, the course definitely seems to have a spiritual bent, but the word "gratitude" at least to me doesn't have anything to do with it.

> Where did I write that they are objectionable?

Fair enough; I may have been inferring a tone that wasn't present. It just strikes me as a bit odd that you feel so strongly about the differences between gratitude and appreciation when they don't seem that different to me (and from reading other comments, others seem to share this confusion).

> I may have been inferring a tone that wasn't present.

That's most likely the case. From my experience with talking to people on this topic I've noticed that anytime I point out the shortcomings of meditation and the like, people--no matter how intelligent they are--tend to get very offended and then proceed to respond to me in anger without even realizing that they are feeling anything but good. (The very fact that this otherwise reasonable thread has been flagged to death is a testament to that).

> I'll be honest and say that from my naive understanding of meditation [...]

If you do your research beyond the watering down of eastern spirituality to fit the western secular mind (which is not, actually, secular) then you may very well see that there is in fact no connection whatsoever between gratitude (i.e., writing thank-you notes, thanking someone mentally, keeping a gratitude journal, counting on one's blessings, praying, meditation) and enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive while say drinking a delicious cup of coffee on a sunny terrace, as the former is designed specifically to attain a specific emotional state to counter, and keep at bay, the feelings like resentment.

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