Comment by intopieces | Hacker News Reader

Comment by intopieces | Hacker News Reader

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>The smart lock requires you to have a charged, working smartphone that you can use in order to get into your own apartment.

When you say “The smart lock,” are you referring to the one in this story? The article mentions that this smart lock, which led to a common area, had a keypad:

“Lisa Gallaudet, the landlords' attorney, said the smart lock was on a single door and that tenants were able to enter a numeric code to get in and didn't need an app. They'd also been offered codes they could enter without a phone.”

So a few things here.

(1) This system did not provide access to a tenant’s apartment directly, only a common area, probably a hallway or entry to the apartment area (article mentions tenant was trapped without it)

(2) The claim that a 93 year old lacked the dexterity to operate the smart lock is spurious. A physical key requires more dexterity than pushing numbers on a keypad.

Overall, this does not seem like a resounding victory for tenants everywhere. More like, a technical win that would support future action by tenants if they find themselves faced with a mandatory-smart-lock-on-their-actual-door situation, which this is not.

> (2) The claim that a 93 year old lacked the dexterity to operate the smart lock is spurious. A physical key requires more dexterity than pushing numbers on a keypad.

In this case absolutely not. I've used the lock in question. It does not have physical keys, and the keypad is non-responsive, and round in shape (think rotary phone). Every person I know who has used the keypad has had trouble both on their first and succeeding attempts. I am pretty good with it, but it requires typing very slowly and using my thumb in order to ensure the key press is accepted.

I'm also thinking a 93 year old with bad eyes. My grandmother in her late 80's could thread a sewing needle by feel.

It’s worth noting that many smart locks nowadays have flat capacitive-based keypads, which even I as an able-bodied adult have issues pressing accurately.

I used to live in a place with a main door that was a smart lock and I loved it, now I have to carry keys again which is super annoying.

But one time the battery died while the landlord was out of town, which meant I couldn’t get in my building for hours until his friend was able to find and bring over the physical key backup.

But one time the battery died while the landlord was out of town, which meant I couldn’t get in my building for hours until his friend was able to find and bring over the physical key backup.

Why not get your phone charged somewhere? Neighbors, a shop, ... surely someone could lend you an outlet + charger for 30 mins?

I believe OP implied that the battery in the smart lock itself died.

Sorry for the confusion, this was a smartlock that used a keypad. No phone integration. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen a smartlock in person that uses a smartphone to unlock, although I've heard they exist.

Anyway the unit in question took 4 AA batteries which needed to be replaced every 6 months or so. The batteries of the lock itself died earlier than expected. Apparently the wifi connection to the front building door was bad and that caused the battery life to drain significantly faster than advertised.

Do you know any 93 year olds?

You might want to account for the lifestyle impact of switching from physical keys to stuff you have to memorize.

Arthritic fingers don't aim well. Keys are somewhat self-centering and easier to operate without good accuracy.

Memory also degrades with age. Many people in their 80's and 90's start experiencing memory loss. My 85 year old father sometimes forgets the route to drive to the shopping center he has been driving to for decades. Relying on elderly people to remember a keycode or operate a smartphone is not a good strategy.

I suspect there is a certain amount of muscle memory involved in using keys. I don't even think "which key do I need" when locking/unlocking my doors, my hands automatically select the correct key.

A physical key may require more dexterity for you, but maybe not for the claimant.

> A physical key requires more dexterity than pushing numbers on a keypad.

There are adapters and grips designed for people with arthritis.

What about security?

A hidden camera watching someone entering a code is not as secure as placing a key in a hole.

A hidden camera can get the bitting of many keys quite easily.

But now you have to be an expert in two or three things or have multiple people help you break in. The come back and test your faked key is also going to be more suspicious than a one shot you know the code and walk in.

It does look like a privacy win to me. Isn't it?

The smart lock could be operated without identification, using a code. It’s not clear to me that this code was unique per user.

This does not look like a privacy win to me. It looks like a good precedent that will aid in a privacy court battle in the future.

> The smart lock could be operated without identification, using a code. It’s not clear to me that this code was unique per user.

"It's not clear to me that this is true" is different from "this is false".

(Also note that the only evidence in the article even for the existence of the code, let alone the question of whether or not it identifies the tenant, is an attorney's claim; in the article, it is not denied, but nor does anyone else confirm it. For example, the attorney's claim is perfectly consistent with the possibility that there is a code, but that the landlord did not inform tenants of it, or would not provide it to them.)

> This does not look like a privacy win to me. It looks like a good precedent that will aid in a privacy court battle in the future.

But the article says:

> It won't set a legal precedent because it's a settlement, but it represents a win for tenants who had issues with smart locks and landlords installing them against their will.

From the sounds of the lock being referenced here, it was not what we usually refer to as a "Smart" lock. It was a simple code keypad. This whole discussion is based on a misnomer applied by a reporter who is neither a tech expert nor a locksmith.

I stayed in an AirBnB recently and the owner installed a smart lock while I was there. Assigning a unique code for each user is the entire point; you can invalidate the code once their lease is up, rather than worrying about the keys getting returned or copied.

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