Comment by jyriand | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jyriand | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

How long have you worked with him? Your language suggest that you are making a lot of assumptions that might be false. This might be related to the fact that you are new and as a junior developer it might sometimes feel like people are against you for some reason. Maybe he actually is like you are describing, but somehow my gut feeling says that you are projecting your own insecurities onto him. I'm not dismissing your claim. Actually, he's a great opportunity to learn how to co-exist with people you don't particularly like.

And be careful how you use your language, just some points that got my attention:

- "who thinks he's my manager" -- You don't really know what he thinks.

- "like he knows everything(in reality he doesn't..." -- You don't really know what he knows.

- "He can't understand simple logic" -- I'm sure he can understand "simple" logic.

- "he acts like I don't know anything" -- People act differently, but you are the one who gives meaning to their actions. If you don't like him, everything he does might seem bad to you.

EDIT: Formatting

"If you don't like him, everything he does might seem bad to you" - couldn't agree more on this, that's why I wish reading Pride and Prejudice was a mandatory part of CS.

I'm not sure this is helpful.

> "who thinks he's my manager" -- You don't really know what he thinks.

You're taking common turns of phrase and interpreting them literally. Saying someone "thinks X" usually just means that they "behave as if they think X". The same goes for the rest of your corrections.

You'd be astonished how many junior developers come into industry knowing nothing more than their technical brilliance (and they may be truly technically brilliant) and thinking they know everything. The fact is when you're starting out, as brilliant as you may be, you have little more than your technical brilliance. 5 years from now, this same junior developer will realize he doesn't know everything and will have a greater respect for everyone he works with... except his juniors who he will probably perceive as thinking they know everything.

Everything is new, but everything is old. And around and around it goes. The funny thing about history is that as much as we move forward, so much of our reality is just a repeating pattern of the past.

Nobody knows anything and we're all just making it up as we go along. For my wealth of knowledge and experience, which is considerable, there is still so much I don't know. There's still so much you don't know and there's still so much this junior developer doesn't know. But we all have something to teach and something to learn. History has shown though that the more junior you are, the less likely you are to be aware of how much you don't know and the bravado of youth is still very much in play. There's a reason the phrase "I wish I was still young enough to know everything" was coined.

Of course, it doesn't help to tarnish everyone with the same brush. There are those who bring genuine insight, but they are so few that it's a shock when they do. It's not unheard of, but I'd be surprised if this junior programmer has any clue what goes on in the heads of his colleagues and is projecting their thoughts based on a complete lack of awareness of a much larger context in their heads than in his own.

Communication is the key to resolving this issue. Nothing more.

I’m sure the sentiment up top is true, but the other side of this is that in technical jobs I’ve had, I’ve driven certain people up the wall by (they would say) not taking them seriously enough. However, these were all fairly arrogant, manipulative people. Humble, trustworthy senior coworkers were always given immediate respect and deference by me. I wonder whether some people don’t have a natural defense mechanism by writing off even good advice and expertise from people they can tell are manipulative and untrustworthy.

That's fair, but often those we perceive as arrogant, especially in the field of engineering have challenges with communication and soft skills. Some never really learn to overcome that. Those that could easily be perceived as arrogant are often saddled with an inability to communicate the bigger picture effectively. This can come off as arrogant until you've spent a few months getting to know them.

That's not to say there aren't those who are manipulative and untrustworthy, there are many of those too - with plenty of ego to overcome or sidestep. It's something to be cautious of, but not everyone is as they first appear - especially in an industry where social skills aren't exactly a strong suit.

I, personally, have quite a few personality quirks... I've been in software development, specifically in web based applications for over two decades. This past year, I've actually worked with someone who has pretty much all of my own personality quirks, but dialed up to 11.

I've never had so many things make so much more sense to me now, than at any point I was ever given advice in the past.

I've also been through a little bit of management training... The Arbinger Institute books (been through 2) have been pretty good in this regard too. "Leadership and Self Deception: Getting Out of The Box" as well as "The Outward Mindset"

If you're a junior one of the first things to learn in office is to talk, professionally and a whole lot more than you were used to in previous lives. You are pretty much free to vent each and every of these thoughts to the person concerning as long as it's with respect and an attitude of learning. If you don't understand the social dynamics going on - ask. If you think you can do something better than your boss or peers, offer it as a positive suggestion ("I think I'm pretty strong in X, shall I give a first try at this problem?"). Most of OPs thoughts are interpretations. They need to get out of that sphere and into the open.

I’ve found that using precise language and trying to understand actions and motivations instead of assuming, usually incorrectly, what people are thinking helps me to identify common ground and be productive.

I think you’re right in that people usually intend “thinks X” to mean “behaves as if they think X.” But what I typically try to do is to share behaviors that make it harder to interact and to work on that. It’s pretty rare that I care that someone “thinks they know everything,” but more common that “they did not spend time listening to my idea and made a judgement without all the info I could share.”

The latter helps me try to create situations where I can share info to inform their decision. Yadda yadda yadda.

While this is true, most solutions to problems are based on changing peoples behavior, not their thinking. Focusing on their thinking, even as a language short cut, isn't productive.

> - "like he knows everything(in reality he doesn't..." -- You don't really know what he knows.

You can't know that for sure.

If, for example, someone is constantly making claims that are factually incorrect, and they are very confident and arrogant in the way they assert these claims. If they are always (factually incorrectly) telling others they're wrong about topics. If they always have to give their view on a topics, even if it's not necessary. In cases like those, it's pretty fair to say they talk like (the OPs actual phrasing) they know everything when they don't.

> - "He can't understand simple logic" -- I'm sure he can understand "simple" logic.

On the basis of what? Plenty of people can't understand simple logic, just like plenty of people have problems with basic maths.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com