Comment by tluyben2 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by tluyben2 | Hacker News Reader

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When we (Dutch) ask in school why our sentences are so low, it is explained that if the punishment does not fit the crime, you will be incentivized to add more crime because you are already facing prison time, so why would you care about a few years more or less. Aka if the crime for rape is almost the same as murder you might as well kill the victim to have less chance of being caught. We have not a lot of crime and people who commit crimes like this come out of it as long term productive citizens: if you go to jail, what exactly are you doing/deterring? He will never have a normal life because of some stupid thing he did? Do like (i think) scandinavia and swiss; make fines fit the economical status of the perpetrator.

Edit; me and my friends did dumb things when young, not quite this dumb, but enough, if tried as adult, for prison time in the US possibly and caning+prison in for instance Singapore ; what exactly would that have done? We are all highly successful tax payers and it was foolishness that occured once or twice, 30 years ago.

here's an example that disputes your assumption: Japan has much less criminality than NL, and has one of the harshest prison systems in the world. you can leave your expensive bicycle unlocked on a crowded tokyo street and no-one's going to touch it. you can leave your expensive apartment completely unsecured and no-one's going to get it. they even still have the baggage lockers all across their subway. a lot of this is due to how scared people are of their police/imprisonment, and the subsequent social downgrade.

I'm not sure Japan is a good comparison, it is so different culturally that you can't read much into the differences.

Can you elaborate more about how the culture would compensate for lower crime?

Apart from being one of the most ethnically and culturally homogeneous countries in the developed world, Japan is the only country in the world to have suffered a nuclear attack (twice!). This fact makes Japan an essentially unique society, not entirely comparable to others. The mindset of Japanese people today is completely different from that of the Japanese for centuries prior to the Second World War.

Actually there is theft, for example, I watched a TV program about shoplifting and they caught several people, like a company of school girls or an old woman.

The bicyles must be registered in Tokyo if I remember correctly.

Also, they have unmanned selling stalls, usually in the countryside, where farmers sell fruits and vegetables [1]

[1] http://abritishprofinjapan.blogspot.com/2017/07/unmanned-veg...

There's an interesting reason for old people getting caught shoplifting in Japan. One of the many articles covering that:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47197417

Perverse incentives at work. If the jail cells in Japan were anything like Rikers, this wouldn't be a thing. Conversely, societal institutions for the elderly could also work.

Even England has unmanned selling stalls.

Just a box of fruit/eggs/unwanted gifts and a box for cash and a sign saying '£1 per item'. At the end of the day the owner takes the cash.

Only happens in the country though, and even there sometimes people take goods while 'forgetting' to pay.

> Japan has much less criminality than NL

Seems that depends on where you look but it's at least on par or below, so point taken.

In Singapore it seems to work well as well. But I always assumed because it is so tiny they will always get you and you will get punished.

It is interesting to learn more and it is a difficult issue which probably is partly unsolvable, I show one perspective, but that might not work elsewhere. I just do not see the damaging a young person from taking part in society forever is a good plan, at all, for small infractions without bodily harm.

> and the subsequent social downgrade.

By no means I claim to know much about Japan but from what I know from reading/watching a lot about it I would wager it's more this than the punishment... But it would need research I guess to figure out why the differences.

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