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Comment by kayoone | Hacker News Reader

But Merc E is multiple classes above the Tesla in terms of space, interior quality and luxury/comfort.

Not performance. And your Merc E won't get better with time.

I'm not a car person, however, the interior of a Tesla feels horribly cheap in comparison to a quality made german car.

Totally get where he's coming from. My Audi, which costs about a third of a Tesla model S, has a nicer interior than a Model S. That makes no sense to me.

accelerating really fast in a straight line is probably the most pointless aspect of "performance" for a car that gets driven on public roads. modern hot hatches that cost $25k are already too powerful to fully appreciate without getting your license taken away. a 230i or m240i is going to be much more fun to drive 10-15 mph over the speed limit than any Tesla. get one with a manual transmission while you still can.

I drive a sports car on public roads. Straight, level, boring public roads with low speed limits. Straight line is basically the only thing that matters 90% of the time. For the other 10% of the time, the difference between a Tesla and the ICE equivalent still doesn't matter or possibly even favors the instant response of the electric drivetrain.

It sounds like you're just not driving on the right public roads.

In the US, to name just a couple, there are:

    - Hells Canyon, Idaho
    - Saddle Road, Hawaii
    - Mulholland Highway, California
    - Route 9W to Storm King Highway, New York
    - Route 348, Helen, Georgia 
    - M119, Harbor Springs, Michigan
    - Highway 1, Big Sur, California

In the UK:

    - Horncastle to Louth
    - Cat and Fiddle
    - Evo Triangle
    - Forres to Alford
    - Black Mountain Pass
    - St Ives To St Just

I mean, its not that I disagree with you, but the closest one is almost 300 miles from here. I used to drive some pretty good ones in western NC as well, tbh. There's a reason there are so many Miatas up there. :)

But here it is all straight and flat.

Those probably are not the 90% case

Of course, but an enthusiast doesn't purchase a sports car for the 90% case, it's purchased for the 10% case - road trips to some of the best driving roads in the world.

If you just want a flash car to get to work and back well that's different. And if you just want to go fast between the lights then a Tesla is genuinely the best car for you.

oh man, 9w is beautiful. used to go to school up there.

You accelerate really fast in a straight line every time you pull out from a stop sign or red light. In fact if you are adhering to speed limits, accelerating really fast is the only way to save travel time.

I mean technically you are correct, but usually when people talk about performance, they are considering the recreational qualities of the car. most people don't buy fast cars to shave fractions of a second off accelerating to 35mph.

Save travel time by accelerating fast? So you get to 40mph a half a second faster? Are you being sarcastic?

Or arrive faster at the next red light.

I used to think this until I got an EV. The ability to a) accelerate quickly and b) stop more quickly makes them almost like motorcycles.

You catch lights easier, merge effortlessly and slowdowns are zen.

I gain about a couple of min trip time to drop off my kids which is about 10m and 6-7 signal lights away.

Also on highways I utilize the HOV lane which for me trims about 5m off my longish commute.

And it’s all comfortable and silent.

Ignoring the existence of traffic, sure.

Choosing Tesla is easy if all you care about is 0-100 km/h performance. However, not everyone do that.

It’s not just 0-100. Driving an EV is just more fun. (IMO of course).

Agreed. Model 3 is the only car that ever gave me a feeling similar to riding a supersport motorcycle in terms of acceleration.

P.S. Model 3 happens to be the only EV I tried, but as much as I know about EVs, most of them share a similar kind of "fun" acceleration.

More fun compared to what? A 911 GT3? Challenger Hellcat? Toyota Corolla?

Better to get in with the youth market, then go upmarket with them as they age.

If you want performance, buy a sports car not a Tesla. Straight line acceleration has almost nothing to do with lap time compared to the suspension and brakes. You can buy a formula car with downforce for about £15k, admittedly more if you want to take it to tracks and run it healthily.

Also, if you look for "performance" in your road car it just sounds like a recipe for wrapping it around a tree (Or ruining your back: I'm a huge motorsports fanatic, and I'd still probably take a comfortable car with reasonable performance over a "fast" one without fancy suspension to make it comfortable)

> And your Merc E won't get better with time.

Have you priced a classic Mercedes E-class lately? Allow me to help. https://www.classicdriver.com/en/cars/mercedes-benz/ponton-1...

What exactly is your point here? The E-class didn't get better. Its worth increased, and there is no guarantee that would continue for today's new models seeing as their depreciation (as with most luxury brand models) is pathetic.

> The E-class didn't get better. Its worth increased [...]

This statement doesn't compute for me.

The actual car is the same. Tesla cars get upgrades and new features after purchase.

They could also brick it remotely, or introduce a bug in the autopilot and plow you into a barrier: You might not want the upgrades

Ok, but if the E Class worth went up, you can't really say that's a bad deal...

They're classic cars from the 1950s kept shining and running. Not only did keeping them that way probably cost quite a bit, as I'd bet an E Class sold today won't have the same appeal sixty years from now as these do today.

The base model 3 is only 0.5s faster to 60 than the base E class, and that gap doesn't widen by all that much as you go up both product lines.

How long does the battery in a Tesla last? What’s the cost to replace it?

Battery degredation seems to bottom out between 85-90% capacity on most cars after a lot of miles. Likely will never need a replacement.

If I recall correctly, most of the lowest performers are older S and X. The 3 is expected to degrade even slower with their improved battery cells and thermal management.

https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-dat...

So far all we have is anecdotal evidence

https://www.teslarati.com/tesloop-tesla-model-s-400k-miles-b...

Is it better or worse as far as total costs compared to a Mercedes-Benz with 645,000 km on it?

Why would a Tesla?

Regular software updates that add significant new features. Dashcam, dog mode, sentry mode, summon, etc.

Better range, doubled charging speeds, improved braking distance...

It is a real case of downloading more RAM.

I was on vacation and got a notification that there was a firmware update for my Model 3 which was parked in my garage a thousand miles away. I remotely installed it and my car literally got 5% quicker.

Pretty crazy!

No, it’s like buying an 1 GHz oscilloscope and buying the license to enable the 2 GHz version. The hardware has always been there.

The test equipment industry is notorious for this. I can buy a $15k Keysight Fieldfox spectrum analyzer and turn it into a $50k instrument with license that enable hardware that is already there.

Cool, so it gets better the same way your 15 year old laptop gets better?

Yes... great isn't it! Not sure why cars haven't done this before.

A Mercedes E class won't get totaled if you get into a fender bender.

But how much will be broken or worn out after three years of service? Germans don't engineer for reliability.

I mean, if we're going to debase the level of argument down to national origin, since when does American manufacturing have a reputation for quality and reliability?

It still stinks like any other petroleum car. Once you go EV it’s hard to go back.

Do you mean particularly model 3?

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