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Comment by wonderwonder | Hacker News Reader

There is a reason America leads the world in percentage of population in prison. Our prison population represents ~22% of the worlds prison population. Our corporations discovered that if you treat prisoners like a renewable resource as opposed to a human being, you can make more money. They literally thrive on human suffering.

They house prisoners for the least amount of money they can while charging as much as they can. Prisoner safety means nothing with sexual assault, murders and drug use running rampant. Removing in person visits is just another way to wring funds from the incarcerated and now their families. They want released prisoners to return to prison as they can continue to earn off of them.

The way we allow prisoners to be treated in this country is a black mark on the soul of the nation.

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>corporations discovered that if you treat prisoners like a renewable resource ...

The problem is bigger than that -- public authorities have made the same discovery, and are extorting families in the same way.

I think you're under the impression that the prisons mentioned here are privately run. All three mentioned in the article, like 90% of prisons in the US, are run by governments (in this case municipal authorities).

I am not under that impression at all; private corporations profit greatly from government prisons. Private companies administer the phone systems, bail bonds, cafeteria / commissaries, etc. Since they profit from it they lobby hard for harsh sentencing laws, against marijuana legalization, etc. ensuring a steady supply of prisoners to feed the complex. They affect future prisoners even before they have been accused of a crime, supporting the campaigns of those they know will support tough prison sentences including judges, sheriffs etc.

Do you honestly think that slave owners simply gave up after slavery became illegal in the US? No, they simply found new and ingenuitive ways of exploiting people. Winning a battle is seldom ever winning the war.

Food for thought: slavery is illegal in the U.S. except if it occurs as part of punishment for a crime!

Is there a good quanititative source of information, on the GDP output of goods/services produced by prisoners (or something close to that)? When I was young and didnt know any better, I just thought prisoners produce small things -- like license plates, maybe some furniture repair..

According to this, they generate $4.8 billion per year.

[0] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/locked-in-pro...

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/inside-the-angola-pris...

Prison labor is extensive, and they make an absolute pittance for their work. The justification is that the state is providing room and board so they are just recovering costs.

But the other comment about prisons just replacing slavery is spot on. Former slaveowners were terrified of the prospect of rebellion, or worse, simply being outnumbered and losing political control with a simple vote. So they worked overtime to disenfranchise and repress former slaves through abuse of the legal system. Ripples of these measures still flow through society today.

That's heavily state dependent. CO just passed a law saying that slavery isn't acceptable for prisoners : https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/6/18056408/c...

FWIW, I still see prison labor pools around Boulder even after passing that. They're not really relying on that clause, but instead the idea that the prisoners could choose not to work. Personally, given the actions of some of our police lately, I'm afraid that this choice might be similar to a slave's choice to work or be whipped.

It depends on the labor and the person.

Prison labor can be rewarding and help build up the skills that a person needs when they are rehabilitated. A lot of the buffalo milk in the US comes from the Canon City Prison in Colorado. In 2013, prisoners there earned about $5/day [0]. CPR did a great story on them. Choice quote:

> A Colorado Corrections Department study showed if prisoners spent the last nine months of their incarceration working, they had a 19 percent better chance of not reoffending.

Though the pay, is for sure, terrible, a 1/5 better chance for work that the prisoners seem to take pride in is not the worst of deals.

A lot of Hot Shots are prisoners too. From sawyers I know, they say the prisoners are treated well and have a good shot at getting a crew spot after incarceration. But that's ancedata.

More info on the BoCo inamte worker program can be found here: https://www.bouldercounty.org/safety/jail/inmate-worker/

Again, it's dependent on the person, the state, and the labor. There are, for sure, a lot of bad and shady things going on. But there are some good thing too.

[0] https://www.wwno.org/post/colorado-prisoners-tend-buffalo-da...

> Prison labor can be rewarding and help build up the skills that a person needs when they are rehabilitated.

Your definition of rewarding is flexible or how you say it loose. Someone forced into a situation where that's all they do isn't going to think whatever they're doing is rewarding unless they've had the shittiest life ever. I'm guessing you believe whatever is put on camera or written by people who run the horror shows hidden away from modern society.

It's heavily dependent upon the person, the state laws, and the prison. Each case is a unique situation.

Not all prisons are run like how Sheriff Joe likes to grandstand. Some states have forced labor and utilize what is effectively slavery, some explicitly forbid it. It's highly variable. Each inmate's situation and case is very unique.

> I'm guessing you believe whatever is put on camera or written by people who run the horror shows hidden away from modern society

Now, I'm going to take a bit of issue with this. You do not know me, I do not know you. I'm sure you are a person with as equally a long and complicated life as mine. We all have loads to carry and there is no such thing as the 'shitty life' championships. We all hurt and we all deserve love.

That said, I have deep personal connections to the prison system in a few states. Some people that I deeply care about have been affected by unlawful activities, some are lawyers, some are wardens, some are under rehabilitation and are inmates right now. I still care deeply about them all. I have my own opinions about the prison system in these states and the unique cases that each person presents. I do not believe whatever is put on camera. I do not believe whatever is written by people who run the 'horror shows' that are 'hidden' away.

If you would like to help prisoners in your local jurisdiction, please reach out today! Many prisons are in need of people that can help assist in the rehabilitation process: https://www.google.com/search?q=prisons+near+me&oq=prisons+n...

Becoming a prison pen-pal is a great way to do so: http://www.blackandpink.org/pen-pals/. Warning: you may find the love of your life: https://www.thecut.com/2019/04/former-times-editor-sheila-ru...

Send books! Prisons are always in need of reading material for the incarcerated. Little Free Libraries are a great start to helping others, but prison book donation is also very helpful: https://prisonbookprogram.org/resources/other-books-to-priso...

If you are religiously inclined, the study of holy scriptures is always encouraged: https://www.prisonfellowship.org/resources/training-resource... . I can attest to their effectiveness.

If you are an active feminist, there are many ways to assist women inmates and further their causes. More here: https://www.bustle.com/p/11-ways-you-can-actually-help-women...

Prison reform starts with you, bellerose. It starts with me, Balgair. Its starts with every single HN reader. Nothing in this world will work unless we do.

Though the road to prison reform is long and there are near countless set-backs, we are making great strides. Have Hope! Florida recently enfranchised felons, a fantastic achievement for your fellow rehabilitated citizens and a large step forward on the long path of justice: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/florida-felons-voting-...

I've been trying to bring social change myself in my spare time.

I try to teach people about determinism and where free will is an illusion. How every event experienced is factored from the preceding event and where nobody has any control in life. The starting point being a person's birth is the key in how everything will play out. I think once people become educated in understanding determinism, real change can happen and where people will understand why people are ending up in these horror shows.

Society is fundamentally broken because of the finances being so diverse, the education system heavily dependent on where a person lives and parental abuse or poor genetics. Right now people are reading hogwash that makes them think they have choice in their life and continues to flourish the faulty system of what we have today. Allowing people to end up in the bottom of the barrel. Devoid of any true humanity. I thought I should share with you because you could have this on the list as well

> Food for thought: slavery is illegal in the U.S. except if it occurs as part of punishment for a crime!

In case anyone reads this and thinks it's just commentary - this is literally enshrined in the U.S. Constitution (13th Amendment, emphasis added):

> Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

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