More jails replace in-person visits with awful video chat products
arstechnica.com
arstechnica.com
Lots more information about the subject (costs, providers, etc.) can be found at Prison Policy Initiative:
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/visitation/report.html
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/prisonvisits.html
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/phones/state_of_phone_justice.h...
[0]: https://law.yale.edu/system/files/area/center/liman/document...
[1]: https://mn.gov/doc/assets/11-11MNPrisonVisitationStudy_tcm10...
But that's the point.
>These services are ludicrously expensive. Video calls cost 40¢ per minute in Newton County, 50¢ per minute in Lowndes County, and $10 per call in Allen County.
The use of the video system is now compulsory, in person visits are banned, and another at-cost for families of criminals is seemingly tacked on because... ...freedom? Capitalism?
At what point do we agree tapping the families of inmates (note: not the inmates, themselves) out of money is going too far?
IIRC only ~10% of prisoners are held in privately run prisons. It's kind of a red herring.
The bigger (and much harder to solve issue) is that all prisons, public or private, work with a slew of private companies in order to run (think food, phones, etc.) who have big incentives to keep the prison population high. And they can easily prey on prisoners, who are generally much poorer than the general population, because of America's concept of "justice".
But these huge costs of, say, video calls, are borne by the families of the incarcerated, who, like the prisoners that they're supporting, skew poor. As you pointed out, it's a vicious cycle.
It also means someone with a competing product, that is better, and cheaper, won't be looked at seriously, if it doesn't include kickbacks.. (or do we call it something else now?)
"incentive schemes" to "encourage prisoners to use video visits over personal visits".
The answer to this is always, "...to keep his knife away from your throat."
I would argue most "very liberal people" would argue that both should be free. Granted, I'm not in the US, but free college is quite favourable nation-wide in the US in polls over the past few years -- let alone among progressive circles.
Video-only options are inhumane, but the family gets screwed either way.
Prisons are built way out in the country and not easily accessible. These same poor families can end up commuting for four hours, burning through a tank of gas and hours of their time just to see a loved one for 30 minutes.
It takes its toll on them and eventually they stop coming to see you anyway. Video should have solved that problem as an alternative but of course, human nature being what it is...
I disagree. Even if only 10% of prisoners are held in privately run prisons, the corporate leadership of those prisons has a disproportionate effect on policy-making for all people. CCA and GeoGroup are the largest recipients of federal contract award grants (for ICE), and they collectively make over 1bn / year from these contracts. They also sponsor legislation that _increases recidivism_ and makes it easier to put undocumented immigrants in their own jails. Just because a small % of the population is housed in private prisons, doesn't mean that private prison's have no impact on our society's relationship between profit and punishment.
Sure you can, it's just no one is doing. The private market is very efficient at finding the most efficient way to provide the things they are paid for. In this case they are paid to house people where house has a specific minimum definition. They figure out how to provide that stuff and nothing else.
If instead we paid in a way that encouraged reducing recidivism they would find a way to do that instead. For example today (according to google) the average prissioner costs $30K per year per inmate. let's say we paid $10K per year as a base, but then paid another $10K every year a former prisoner didn't commit a new crime for 5-7 years after they got out. Then these companies would be looking for ways to ensure that people don't reoffend because that means they lose out on the vast majority of their pay. I would expect the greedy selfish private prison companies to start providing lots things that prisoners will need to be successful when they leave for example behavior management strategies, life skills classes, GED programs, diagnosis and treatment for mental illness, even providing free post release things like job placement, or family counseling. All because these are things the will prevent recidivism and get them that sweet yearly payout.
The thing about greedy capitalists, is they are very easy manage, if you are the one paying them. If they are the ones paying you... well we call that corruption.
Really I think the fact we don't see more of this type of pattern suggests that city and states that run prisons care more about punishment than rehabilitation.
Then you'd have a private corporation with agents with direct access to people with criminal backgrounds and connections with a direct financial incentive to ensure that an ex-prisoner was not identified as the perpetrator of any crimes in a certain period.
This might not work out exactly the way you hope.
Prison officials and guards have financial incentive in keeping the imprisoning people business booming even when they work in public prisons.
But not as a 1:1 replacement. And certainly not for a fee. It's asinine for someone to have to pay for this and I hope someone drops a lawsuit on them for this obvious travesty.
You see, this isn't just a data connection. Somebody must be paid to observe the video, making sure that it isn't being used for crime. That person must understand the accent, slang, codewords, and everything else. That person must be trustworthy. That person won't be cheap.
Without an observer, prisoners will get up to all sorts of mischief. They will order witnesses and judges killed. They will continue to operate organized crime. They will pass along threats.
That's no longer the goal. Prison contracts are usually billed flat rate. If JD locks up more prisoners, they get a better deal.
Society should profit from jails in that they have higher quality citizens.
Only something like 10% of prisons in the US are privately operated.
Because then prison officials would have incentives to aid ex-prisoners in avoiding being identified as perpetrators of later crimes.
I don't agree with the policy change; but is it known that video-chat and equivalents don't have a similar effect?
You're not "opting for convenience and privacy" here; you're making the only choice you have in the face of prisons looking to make a couple of dollars.
I had to reread this part to figure out that is what they meant.
This is a horrible additional punishment for the prisoners. Unless this punishment is reflected in shorter sentences (which it won’t be) this must stop.
What would a prison look like that is designed with the right incentives?
Can we give bonuses for recidivism rate declines?
I've given this 30s of thought so I'm more than happy to be shown to be very wrong about this idea.
Adjust figures and timing as necessary so that it's worth your while, but doesn't incentivize gaming the system too much. This is cheaper to the state than the prison time anyway.
1. You now have an incentive to commit a crime and spend time in prison. People will rightfully ask why they don't get $10k a year for not breaking the law.
2. It could reduce recidivism, and isn't strictly punitive. It's incompatible with the way the US runs prisons.
#1b might be improved with proper framing. Effective politicians are good at spinning proposals a particular way. E.g. depending on who you're presenting the idea to, emphasize how the offer goes away if you break strict conduct rules, or maybe you can only do it once, or you talk about it in terms of how long it will take for the state to earn a profit, etc.
I'm not touching #2.
I’ve heard the main challenge is that Judges and DAs are (often) elected. If you err on the side of putting someone in jail for too long or who doesn’t deserve it it’s not as outrageous to the community as if someone slips through the cracks, gets out early and murders someone, etc.
So there is huge pressure to avoid false negatives but not so much on false positives, so to speak.
Other things too, and there have been cases of illegal kickbacks to judges for sentencing.
Right now we seem to be optimizing for number of people in jail per capita - and we lead the world in this.
We ought to consider optimizing for lower crime in general (which is much broader than the prison system) but recidivism seems like a good place to start.
There are many off the shelf programs that are shown to reduce recidivism, we could start there.
I’m also curious about a model of cooperatively run prisons. Perhaps even a model where when you are set free it means you are offered a job in the prison for higher pay since you understand the system and have gained respect of other inmates.
This would also allow for mentorship and ongoing relationships.
Ideas that seem worth exploring are:
Natural outdoor spaces where prisoners farm, build their own tiny homes, meditate, get access to psychedelic therapy, learn leadership skills, make stuff, art, etc.
You essentially create a “life / society” incubator for the types of beliefs, behaviors relationships and systems that you are optimizing for in the greater community at large.
Reparenting in many ways.
They house prisoners for the least amount of money they can while charging as much as they can. Prisoner safety means nothing with sexual assault, murders and drug use running rampant. Removing in person visits is just another way to wring funds from the incarcerated and now their families. They want released prisoners to return to prison as they can continue to earn off of them.
The way we allow prisoners to be treated in this country is a black mark on the soul of the nation.
[0] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/locked-in-pro...
Prison labor is extensive, and they make an absolute pittance for their work. The justification is that the state is providing room and board so they are just recovering costs.
But the other comment about prisons just replacing slavery is spot on. Former slaveowners were terrified of the prospect of rebellion, or worse, simply being outnumbered and losing political control with a simple vote. So they worked overtime to disenfranchise and repress former slaves through abuse of the legal system. Ripples of these measures still flow through society today.
Prison labor can be rewarding and help build up the skills that a person needs when they are rehabilitated. A lot of the buffalo milk in the US comes from the Canon City Prison in Colorado. In 2013, prisoners there earned about $5/day [0]. CPR did a great story on them. Choice quote:
> A Colorado Corrections Department study showed if prisoners spent the last nine months of their incarceration working, they had a 19 percent better chance of not reoffending.
Though the pay, is for sure, terrible, a 1/5 better chance for work that the prisoners seem to take pride in is not the worst of deals.
A lot of Hot Shots are prisoners too. From sawyers I know, they say the prisoners are treated well and have a good shot at getting a crew spot after incarceration. But that's ancedata.
More info on the BoCo inamte worker program can be found here: https://www.bouldercounty.org/safety/jail/inmate-worker/
Again, it's dependent on the person, the state, and the labor. There are, for sure, a lot of bad and shady things going on. But there are some good thing too.
[0] https://www.wwno.org/post/colorado-prisoners-tend-buffalo-da...
Your definition of rewarding is flexible or how you say it loose. Someone forced into a situation where that's all they do isn't going to think whatever they're doing is rewarding unless they've had the shittiest life ever. I'm guessing you believe whatever is put on camera or written by people who run the horror shows hidden away from modern society.
Not all prisons are run like how Sheriff Joe likes to grandstand. Some states have forced labor and utilize what is effectively slavery, some explicitly forbid it. It's highly variable. Each inmate's situation and case is very unique.
> I'm guessing you believe whatever is put on camera or written by people who run the horror shows hidden away from modern society
Now, I'm going to take a bit of issue with this. You do not know me, I do not know you. I'm sure you are a person with as equally a long and complicated life as mine. We all have loads to carry and there is no such thing as the 'shitty life' championships. We all hurt and we all deserve love.
That said, I have deep personal connections to the prison system in a few states. Some people that I deeply care about have been affected by unlawful activities, some are lawyers, some are wardens, some are under rehabilitation and are inmates right now. I still care deeply about them all. I have my own opinions about the prison system in these states and the unique cases that each person presents. I do not believe whatever is put on camera. I do not believe whatever is written by people who run the 'horror shows' that are 'hidden' away.
If you would like to help prisoners in your local jurisdiction, please reach out today! Many prisons are in need of people that can help assist in the rehabilitation process: https://www.google.com/search?q=prisons+near+me&oq=prisons+n...
Becoming a prison pen-pal is a great way to do so: http://www.blackandpink.org/pen-pals/. Warning: you may find the love of your life: https://www.thecut.com/2019/04/former-times-editor-sheila-ru...
Send books! Prisons are always in need of reading material for the incarcerated. Little Free Libraries are a great start to helping others, but prison book donation is also very helpful: https://prisonbookprogram.org/resources/other-books-to-priso...
If you are religiously inclined, the study of holy scriptures is always encouraged: https://www.prisonfellowship.org/resources/training-resource... . I can attest to their effectiveness.
If you are an active feminist, there are many ways to assist women inmates and further their causes. More here: https://www.bustle.com/p/11-ways-you-can-actually-help-women...
Prison reform starts with you, bellerose. It starts with me, Balgair. Its starts with every single HN reader. Nothing in this world will work unless we do.
Though the road to prison reform is long and there are near countless set-backs, we are making great strides. Have Hope! Florida recently enfranchised felons, a fantastic achievement for your fellow rehabilitated citizens and a large step forward on the long path of justice: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/florida-felons-voting-...
I try to teach people about determinism and where free will is an illusion. How every event experienced is factored from the preceding event and where nobody has any control in life. The starting point being a person's birth is the key in how everything will play out. I think once people become educated in understanding determinism, real change can happen and where people will understand why people are ending up in these horror shows.
Society is fundamentally broken because of the finances being so diverse, the education system heavily dependent on where a person lives and parental abuse or poor genetics. Right now people are reading hogwash that makes them think they have choice in their life and continues to flourish the faulty system of what we have today. Allowing people to end up in the bottom of the barrel. Devoid of any true humanity. I thought I should share with you because you could have this on the list as well
In case anyone reads this and thinks it's just commentary - this is literally enshrined in the U.S. Constitution (13th Amendment, emphasis added):
> Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
The problem is bigger than that -- public authorities have made the same discovery, and are extorting families in the same way.
Terrible idea all around.
This is not just punishing the inmate, this is punishing their extended family and anyone who cares about them as well.
Some people just don't appear to care about being labeled "morally bankrupt". By the time they're done, police, judges and jails will be superfluous because society will have no values left to protect.
The latter is somewhat tongue-in-cheek of course, but this is definitely narrowing the moral gap between jailers and inmates even further.
Absolutely embarrassing for any modern society.
Such software would no longer be open source (canonically defined by OSI) or free (canonically defined by the FSF), and it would cause all sorts of problems for developers as it would be incompatible with other licenses such as the GPL. And it would be impossible to somehow enumerate all "evil purposes" in a licenses, and if you theoretically did, virtually everyone else would disagree with at least some part of it.
We're willing to devote a lot of time and effort to solving hard technical problems, we should be at least as willing to use some of that energy to solve the associated social problems as well.
Here's the thing: technological expertise in no way implies social expertise. In fact anecdotally they are inversely correlated. Technologists would benefit from moving in the humility direction outside of their chosen field, they are already hubristic enough as is.
For what it's worth, this phenomenon is widespread beyond technologists. It's easy to think that because you're really good in one field, that you must be really good in other fields too. But sadly it generally isn't so.
You can make more narrow restrictions, but those will still have a way of backfiring or having unanticipated results anyhow, not to mention that I'm yet to see one of these sorts of licenses end up on a product where it actually matters anyhow.
Practically and legally speaking, there's no lever here to discuss the misuse of. I mean, heck, I'd give you at least a 25% chance these things were already developed in a context that doesn't permit open source to be used anyhow.
So the authors of busybox, linux kernel, display drivers, and all of the myriad open source components used are responsible for basically every embedded hardware product in the world?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3559904
It’s a hard space to define and navigate, as the comments indicate.
BUT, maybe there's room for a reasonably permissive proprietary license that is based around moral restrictions. Plenty of people still use proprietary software; so if you're already doing that, I could see a semi-open "ethics license" fitting in. You couldn't include it in other GPL or MIT licensed libraries, but again, if you're already building proprietary software, those restrictions probably don't matter to you.
Disgraceful people. The name of the company is particularly insulting...
Just name and shame the individuals developing this kind of software, they deserve much worse but it’s a good start.
Ideally, the lawyers would work it out, but if not, the recidivism rate might.
I don't feel at all conflicted about the possibility that anyone might get more than what's coming to them. The misery of others should not be a for-profit industry--not for the criminals, and definitely not for the prisons. Keeping prisoners just seems like one of those jobs where no one who actually wants to do it should ever be allowed to.
There it is, its all about squeezing money from the prisons resources. In this case unfortunately those resources are human beings that have been downgraded to less than human. I could not imagine the mind set it takes to willfully profit on human suffering.
> inmates were disappointed they wouldn't get to see family members anymore
But frankly welcome to the US - we have zero empathy for people who end up incarcerated ='(
Has nothing to do with physical contact. When does someone in a court ever make physical contact with the other party except maybe shaking hands anyway?
These wardens should be required to chat with their wives and children over video chat only for at least a month and see how it feels.
I'm not saying the video visits are a good thing, just that I'd rather have a more balanced article.