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Comment by PutinIsMyGod | Hacker News Reader

I honestly believe the rise of incelibacy will lead to increasing destabilization of the US. There's nothing worse for a country than a bunch of lonely angry men without jobs and without sex.

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When I was younger, I wanted sex all the time. But around the time I turned 29 or 30 I rapidly began to lose interest in sex. It was like someone turned off a switch.

It doesn't seem normal - I should want sex more than I do. I'm healthy and my hormone levels are normal. Maybe I'm an outlier, but I wonder how many people aren't having sex because, for whatever reason, they're losing interest at a relatively young age.

I have friends who spend almost all their free time playing video games. I ask them why don’t they want to occasionally go out, meet a girl, whatever, they’re content playing video games all the time at home, plus they like that it doesn’t cost them nearly as much money as going out. It’s a little sad to me but if that’s what they want to do it’s their lives. Video games have gotten very addictive -this may be a contributing factor.

One thing that's not being discussed much in this thread - having a low or declined libido is OK. There seems to be a huge social stigma or pressure - STILL - on men that they want (or should want) to get laid all the time. This is of course also pushed by the marketing teams behind e.g. viagra.

Maybe you have better things to do? Even if you're single, if you're doing reasonably well career wise, this is usually the time that you start becoming more "mature", have a lot of work experience, your peers trust and depend on you etc.

You might consider getting tested for testosterone levels if this concerns you.

I went from wanting sex every day in my mid 20s to wanting it only a few times a week in my 30s. I think it's normal. I'm more interested in having sex with more women than the same ones over and over again, though.

China is far, far worse with the sex ratio being incredibly imbalanced due to the past one child policy. There's a number of documentaries about the craziness and competitiveness of dating in China. People not having sex, not having families (if they so desire) and not making enough money to be comfortable anywhere is a national emergency.

American men of any sort can just go to Brazil, Mexico, Ukraine or the Czech Republic... where an endless supply of objectively-attractive women are willing to hookup with foreigners for very little or no relative cost. (Prague 10's for 60€/hour.) Rent a huge villa for cheap for a few weeks in Central and South America, the girls beat down your door like they're meeting a celebrity... they will bring their girlfriends if you ask them for a good old hellraising.

LDOW (older women) from the US visit Jamaica, Haiti, Costa Rica and parts of Africa for sex tourism, formally or informally, because of the abundance of fit men.

I think frustrated dudes need a shift in attitude, a more open-mind and make an effort for their own sake. A more pleasing personality, better social adroitness and improved awareness goes a long ways to many things in life.

I don't have a villa or anything but I have a pretty decent apartment on the beach in Mexico. I work for a startup so I'm not wealthy at all but still am doing better than 80% of men in this country. I'm also have an oddly asymmetrical face and look like I'm sick all the time due to some chronic health problems. Girls are not beating down my door. Actually I gave up on Tinder here awhile ago and I don't try to meet women who are the least bit attractive because its obvious they are not interested.

Prostitution is not really what this article is about, but even as far as that goes, really good looking prostitutes kind of try to avoid the ugly guys (although they won't actually say no, they just generally aren't enthusiastic). I have kind of proven that on a few occasions.

Anyway this is kind of a long way of saying that there is a limit to how far being American or "a shift in attitude" will take you as far as sex if you're unattractive. Its not a substantive part of my life and that's something I've just had to accept. I have more or less substituted that with masturbation on the internet to be honest.

I don’t agree that these are good solutions. A lot of these frustrated men are simply looking for companionship. Not to mention the unrealistic prospect of someone flying to another country for some casual sex. Not everyone can afford that kind of thing.

And even if you CAN afford it, it's still a huge step to take - from a life of low social interaction to a foreign country to play the part of a playboy?

I mean I'd probably be up for it if I was still single, but where do you even start? Is that even legal? You'd be under some serious scrutiny if you were to go on a sex vacation to Thailand for example due to the prevalence of child abuse (and child sex tourism) there.

I do know one guy (very much a jock) who openly goes on sex vacations, not even the kind where you have to pay for it. He just gets on Tinder and does his thing. Good for him, not my thing - even if I'm a bit jealous, it's a lifestyle and a social situation I don't want to be a part of.

> I think frustrated dudes need a shift in attitude, a more open-mind and make an effort for their own sake. A more pleasing personality, better social adroitness and improved awareness goes a long ways to many things in life.

Yeah, the "just be yourself" narrative needs to die. Not because it's false(you should be authentic in your words and actions) but because it is used as an excuse to not make an effort to self-improve.

Incelibacy is not a word and do not make it one. It's called involuntary celibacy.

Yeah, I would think "incelibacy" would mean non-celibacy. But that's the opposite of what PutinIsMyGod meant. Then again flammable and inflammable mean the same thing.

What a country!

That's also not a thing.

I'd be much more worried about people lacking jobs. Having a job makes one more attractive and would make one likelier to find a partner. I'm curious to see how China manages a gender imbalance.

Without a sense of companionship I think is more important. You can always wank it and get laid infrequently and people are kinda ok with it. But having someone to love you? To grow with? That's something everyone needs a lot of to have a healthy and functional society.

I think you're right but there are new things coming, such as VR porn, that could make the effect smaller.

porn is not a replacement for a relationship with a person, casual or serious.

Of course it's not but VR porn is a big step from video porn. There will be a percentage of men who will be satisfied by it just enough to wait longer (at 30+ it could become easier for them). Don't you think that this could lower the destabilizing effect?

Not even close. If anything it'll make things worse, as more immature kids will think this is great and feel less motivated.

How would that make the chances of destabilization higher? It seems you actually agree with me?

Its because relationships, both casual and long term, are usually more than about sex. And even purely sexual ones... its not just orgasm that makes sex good. Its everything before and after sex, too. Its the ecstasy of sharing your most vulnerable self with _another human being_. And also the uniqueness of every experience.

It may be possible that a sufficiently advanced AI and advances in robotics may be sufficient for what most people think of sex though, IDK.

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