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Comment by headShrinker | Hacker News Reader

> and best to be avoided

In any quantity? Prove it

The problem is everything is a poison in quantity. Moderation is key with anything.

The agenda was clearly indicated. Please reread my parent post, Reduce alcohol consumption.

We consume many extremely dangerous poisons throughout the day and there is not a ton of research of the effects of those molecules. Or there is and almost no follow up action.

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I guess my point is the risk of alcohol consumption is incredibly high and the reward is incredibly low. It’s an irrational game we play (myself included, my wife and I will surely share a bottle of wine tonight at dinner).

I get your point but like it or not alcohol is very complex and has many benefits as well as deficits. What organizations are doing now to alcohol with their studies is the equivalent of what people did to marijuana in the 40s and 50s. They decided alcohol was bad and then they went about producing propaganda and attributing science fortify their claims. In limited quantities alcohol has been shown to improve sleep, reduce stress, thin blood, and increase social behaviors. All of these are huge markers for life longevity and lower mortality. If you’re really concerned about poisons and risk factors you would look at the American diet and realize just what havoc it’s wreaking on its population, i.e. diabetes, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, and heart disease. Statistically you will likely die of one of them

Alcohol DESTROYS sleep. You wont like any of the studies that google comes up with, so do what I did. Buy an Oura ring, get your baseline sleep data, then have just two glasses of wine and see what happens. It's crazy what just a little alcohol does to the quality of your sleep.

Any increase in social behaviors are vastly outweighed by anti-social behavior.

I agree with you on stress reduction but that is a dangerous, dangerous game.

In limited quantities it can be a sleep ad. Anti-social is drinking too much. Stop conflating over drinking affects with moderate drinking affects.

> DESTROYS

Stop with the hyperbole. No it doesn’t and google doesn’t bring up good sound science, it brings up clickbait, “experts”, and tons of hearsay/case study. Real science on moderate drinking is hard to perform, because there are so many other factors at play..... such as genetics, diet, exercise, smoking, air pollution, water pollution, antibiotics, The proliferation of sugar and refined grains, the over use of pharmaceuticals, persistent inorganic compounds, insecticides, herbicides, fertilizers, growth hormones, and radiation. But concentrate on negative aspects of alcohol because it seems to fit your agenda. Meanwhile there are millions of happy people who have good friends, sleep well, have a great job, eat healthy, have decent monetary stream and can have a drink or two without turning in to a sloppy abusive mess. People who drink alcohol in moderation tend with live longer than abstinent sober people... how do I know that? I googled it

While alcohol will help put you to sleep (so will a concussion) it inhibits the restorative function of sleep. (1,2,3)

I’m all for the hedonistic rationalization for alcohol. We all need a release. But it is disingenuous to say alcohol has any positive effects beyond that. It is no different than sugar in that regard. My Saturday night cheat meal is filled with both, and I always look forward to it. But I don’t try and pretend that it’s in any way good for me (beyond psychological).

To that end, I completly agree with you that there are plenty of people who enjoy a few drinks without any real damage. I'm saying classify alchohol for what it it. The tobacco and sugar (4,5) lobbies love to pretend that they are something which they are not to sway public opinion. That is dangerous to society.

1. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/acer.12006 2. https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501... 3. https://peterattiamd.com/matthewwalker1/ 4. http://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/sugar-papers-reveal-industry-ro... 5. https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/coca-cola-funds-sc...

> In limited quantities it can be a sleep ad.

But it's not a sleep aid. Seriously. The idea of a nightcap has been thoroughly debunked.

Alcohol is a sedative, being sedated is not the same as being asleep. I'd suggest looking in to Dr. Matthew Walker's research on the effects of alcohol and sleep if you want to have a clearer picture.

Conveniently linked above, both his book and a podcast interview :)

Yes, it can be. But it can also be more complicated than that. Reducing the effects of alcohol to its direct impact on health is just that: reductionist. Then drawing moral conclusions from it, as many readers of such reports do, is a fallacy.

>my wife and I will surely share a bottle of wine tonight at dinner

For example, many people will have found wives because of alcohol, which acts as a 'social lubricant'. Having a wife is good for one's health, etc.

Why don't you voluntarily consume benzene in moderation? Because you don't want cancer. Same with alcohol.

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