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Comment by paulddraper | Hacker News Reader

> We're cool with Swedes overstaying their welcome...

I think it has less to do with "being cool with Swedes", and more to do with the fact that illegal immigrants are -- statistically speaking -- overwhelming Hispanic, and anyone identifying illegals will have better results among Hispanics.

I don't think anyone is more cool with a Swede conducting a terrorist attack than an Arab. Rather, any tenancy to profile Arabs as terrorists comes from the fact that most terrorists are Arabic.

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This is not to justify the practice of racial profiling. I merely assert that the motivations for racial profiling stems more from actual statistics and cost-benefit analysis than intrinsic irrational racism as I think you suggest.

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Actual statistics show most terrorists are not Arab, they're homegrown right-wingers.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/homegrown-...

The majority of terrorists/murders/rapists/etc in nearly every country will be whatever is the largest demographic. That's not surprising.

>I merely assert that the motivations for racial profiling stems more from actual statistics and cost-benefit analysis than intrinsic irrational racism as I think you suggest.

That doesn't make racial profiling any more ethical or correct. The evidence is so overwhelming that intrinsic irrational racism is part of the reason why it is done. That evidence includes direct rhetoric of the current administration.

It is done because an overwhelming majority of those entering the country illegal are hispanic. There isn't much more to it than that. It's not racism just because they happen to be the race doing it. If it were any other race it would be treated the exact same way.

If I could convince you that the largest block of visa overstays are from Canada, and that a good chunk of them are from European countries, would you reconsider whether targeting Hispanic people is racist?

https://www.statista.com/chart/9550/foreign-citizens-who-ove...

Are most of these Canadian visa holed up in the various Motel 6s in the Washington area? I imagine the ICE fished in this area, because it was a good spot to catch fish. In general, I don't think much of the government, but I am sure they have metrics. The local ICE satrap isn't going to keep sending people to Motel 6 if they aren't catching any fish.

It's amazing the mental acrobatics that people go through to try to find an after-the-fact justification for targeted racist policy.

The administration is run by white supremacists. They overtly and covertly signal their support for neo-nazis, and have campaigned on their overt bias against hispanic immigrants.

Where is Occam's Razor in this case? Why is this simple explanation invalidated by a more complex one?

Why was this particular policy started under Obama? Interested to hear your mental acrobatics.

Let me apply Occam's Razor, a lot of government employees are lazy, so going to the Motel 6 makes sense. Get the names, run some queries, arrest some people, hit my target number, the boss is happy. We have been doing this since 2015, why fix it, if it isn't broken.

Why do you assume Obama was or could have been any better?

The same people held power in 2015: Graham, McConnell, Sessions. The same media institutions toed the line. McCain got the whole nationalist jingoism ball rolling with Sarah Palin on his ticket.

Because Obama is in charge of the Executive Branch, the President sets policy and Obama was President for 8 years.

I also don't have this cognitive dissonance where I blame the current occupant of an office for the policy his predecessor started.

I hold to account whoever has power now. I don't play the "whataboutism" game, because it is unwinnable. There was always someone in the past that has done worse.

What matters is progress.

No, you are not. You are blaming Trump for a policy that was started when Obama was President. This isn't a "whataboutism" situation. When called on it, you tried to blame Republican Senators, even though they were in the minority when this policy was started.

I'm blaming Trump for continuing and amplifying the policy's negative effects. Hundreds of families have been separated by border enforcement without any records[1]. Children are being taken from their mothers and fathers and forcibly adopted via agencies run by white evangelical churches[2]. You're trying to deflect from the actual, unprecedented harm being caused now to people on the border by pointing at history.

Even the fact underlying your basic premise is wrong: Republicans had the majority in both houses of congress in January 3, 2015[3], gaining the Senate after having held the House since January 3, 2011. They continued to hold both in majority until the past midterm elections seated a Democratic house majority this January.

1. https://www.vox.com/2019/2/21/18234767/parents-separated-chi...

2. https://newrepublic.com/article/149161/uncertain-fate-migran...

3. https://ballotpedia.org/114th_United_States_Congress

You are correct, the Republicans were in charge of the Senate in 2015 when this policy was in effect. I acknowledge my mistake.

This is something that you are unwilling to do. This post is on a particular policy started during the Obama administration. You blamed it on Trump. When called on it, you change the subject and accuse me of deflection.

>It's amazing the mental acrobatics that people go >through to try to find an after-the-fact justification >for targeted racist policy.

So if I understand your mindset correctly, blaming Trump is your way of creating an after-the-justification for Obama's targeted racist policy.

For the record, I don't find your mental acrobatics amazing, just lazy. It seems like it all flows from "Orange Man Bad".

You're trying to get me to say Obama was bad? Yeah, he was. Locking up the unaccompanied Central American kids and incentivizing Mexico to deter migration behind the scenes while putting on a sympathetic face was bad.

That doesn't change the fact that "Orange Man" is in charge now, and is exacerbating the bad policy, AND is encouraging people to hate on top of it. His people are ripping kids out of their parent’s arms. He’s rallying white supremacists, calling entire ethnicities rapists and entire countries shitholes.

You’re looking for excuses to pin the pinheaded totalitarian’s decisions on someone else. It’s always someone else’s fault in MAGAland.

I keep looking for excuses?

Let's recap:

I blamed the Motel 6 policy on the local ICE satrap. No you said, that is amazing mental acrobatics, it is Orange Man's fault. I point out the policy started out under Obama. You change the subject to the Border and accuse me of trying to pin Obama's policy on Obama. I never mentioned the Border, that was you changing the subject.

Wouldn't it been easier to just admit you didn't read the article carefully and you didn't notice the dates?

Maybe in your land admitting a mistake isn't allowed, perhaps there is this fear that it diminishes the Badness of Orange Man.

Yes, so long as most illegal immigrantion is visa overstays.

Most illegal immigration is visa overstays.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecu...

Then we have some non-intuitive results.

Because the majority of the U.S.'s 11 million illegal immigrants are Mexican, and 80% are from Central and South America. [1]

[1] Migration Policy Institute, 2015 https://www.migrationpolicy.org/research/analysis-unauthoriz...

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