Comment by sfRattan | Hacker News Reader

Comment by sfRattan | Hacker News Reader

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Maybe it's because I can be 'long winded' and have put effort into curbing that habit, but I find that the 'uh/uhm/ehm/mmm' interjections can be removed from conversation as well. I have to put more effort into saying just enough to communicate an interesting idea and _stop there_. It mostly means thinking before I speak rather than as I speak... The latter pattern is what results in rambling on; thinking as you speak rather than before is sort of like speaking as you would write, but without the editing you would do next.

Part of that idea for conversing without 'uh/uhm' came from employee-to-employee advice I read somewhere about preparing memos for meetings with Jeff Bezos at Amazon. It was something along the lines of: have all your facts and answers ready but don't put everything in the memo; economize the information you put to paper down to what's essential, so he doesn't waste time reading more than he needs to and has questions to ask, but make sure you have the answers ready.

That same advice can be adapted to conversation. Figure out how to communicate one discrete idea, but don't try to answer every concern/question the listener might have before they ask about it, even if you have those answers ready or are thinking about them as you talk. Let the other person speak and engage with the idea, then answer the questions they do ask. If you come to an 'uh/uhm' point in your own words, the other person probably has a question/concern/thought already (and it might not be the one you're about to 'uhm' into).

I agree, and that's why I qualified with "most" people. It takes exceptional communication skills to reliably command other people's attention without much effort in casual conversation, unless you use some kind of trick. Uh/um is a simple tool to help less experienced communicators express their thoughts. I think of it like a temporary scaffolding on the way to becoming a great communicator.

How do experienced people do it then?

Charisma, tension, timing. The professionals are actors, comedians, and politicians.

Actors, comedians, and politicians all have memorized scripts, lines, routines, and soundbites. I'm very curious as to what hathawsh's eventual answer to baxtr's question will be, because I consider their comment at the top of this thread to be utterly counterproductive and unhelpful. Oftentimes, HN threads have a top comment that is contradictory to the post for the sake of being contradictory. In this case, the comment is both contradictory and harmful. Literally no one learning or teaching communication says that "uh" and "um" are good habits. In fact, I would go even further than the article asserts and claim that I succeed socially the more silent I am. People are self-absorbed; they like people who listen to them.

> Actors, comedians, and politicians all have memorized scripts, lines, routines, and soundbites.

They recite some of the time, but most their overall speech is improvised. Generally, people in these kinds of roles are pretty good at that too.

> In this case, the comment is both contradictory and harmful. Literally no one learning or teaching communication says that "uh" and "um" are good habits.

It depends on how meta you want to get. As a beginner learning how to give speeches, you work to expunge these kinds of "filler" words. However, at "expert level" you might use these words to seem more "authentic", and/or to appear as if you're forming thoughts for the first time.

It depends on the audience and what you're trying to communicate, which goes beyond what you say to how you say it.

The Wikipedia article on formulaic language (pointed out by another commenter, thank you!) is helpful here.

"There is strong empirical evidence that speakers use formulaic language in similar ways across languages and that formulaic language plays a fundamental role in the structuring of spontaneous speech, as they are used to achieve a better synchronization between interlocutors by announcing upcoming topic changes, delays related to planning load or preparedness problems, as well as speaker's intentions to take/give the floor or to revise/abandon an expression he/she had already presented."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulaic_language (citing a 2007 study)

In conversation, formulaic language can help you seem more relatable to other people. Think of Indiana Jones, the beloved hero who often used formulaic language to express himself, as compared with the villains, who barely varied from perfectly formed sentences. You can see the same pattern in countless stories because the writers target an audience that feels more comfortable with people who talk that way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmkJ0lrCpLQ

But again, that’s rhetoric, not casual conversation.

They also do really well in casual conversation, because of their skill in the rhetoric of their profession.

You're doing casual conversation wrong. Wit is all about timing, for example, and people love casually witty people. People dislike people telling boring tales of their lives, but if you add a little tension, even a trip to the market can seem interesting.

My problem is that I often think by proxy of conversation. My ramblings are a kind of experimentation which then leads to some good ideas or insights ones in a while.

> It mostly means thinking before I speak rather than as I speak

Beyond the first volley of a conversation, I don't think I could do this while really listening to the other person.

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