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Comment by dcx | Hacker News Reader

It's worth noting that despite not providing Vitamin D, there's still a fair bit of value in getting sunlight through glass:

1. Seasonal Affective Disorder is treated using just the visible light spectrum entering the retinas of the eyes [1], and there are a ton of studies showing its effectiveness (in fact, most SAD lamps explicitly filter out ultraviolet light).

2. Some infrared passes through some glass and seems to be good for a thousand different things. [2] [3]

3. UVA passes through glass and has beneficial effects on the cardiovascular system. [4]

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0273230092...

[2] https://valtsus.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-therapeutic-effects...

[3] https://www.quora.com/Can-infrared-light-pass-through-glass

[4] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X1...

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There is a lot of value in being able to see the outside. I can barely see outside from my position in the building and I feel it's really starting to eat my soul staring at walls the whole day.

Have you tried plants? I can't see windows from my desk, but I've got my cubicle filled with plants & it kind of makes up for it. One is a tropical shrub behind my monitors which would swallow my whole workstation if I didn't prune it back. Now if only people who seem to like the gloom would stop disconnecting bulbs in the fluorescent light fixtures..

There is evidence[1] that tropical plants and microorganisms in the soil will remove VOCs from sealed indoor environments, although the effect will likely be limited in an open plan office. At least they are nice to look at.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Clean_Air_Study

Critical Review: How Well Do House Plants Perform as Indoor Air Cleaners?

https://www.buildingecology.com/download/critical-review-how...

This might be of interest to you.

Oh... If only I could keep a plant alive in my office. I struggled with one for months, got it really healthy. Left instructions with co-worker and went to Europe for a month. While I was gone at least 5 people walked by that plant and said "oh, he's gone to Europe, I'd better water his plant for him". I get back and my plant is dead. My co-worker feels really, really bad about it and tells me he followed my interactions to the letter. It was over the course of 2 weeks that the other 4 people excitedly tell me that they watered my plant for me while I was gone, even though there was a little sign in it saying "please don't water me".

Facilities doesn't allow plants Everything needs to to dull, uniform and gray.

Leave.

(Edit: That sounds very depressing, and could be health affecting in the long term, so if you can, please do leave!).

break up with your SO.

detach from the electrical grid

buy a van

Just bring one! They may not ask you to remove it.

Fluorescent light is typically low quality.

I would add early morning sunlight helps regulate circadian rhythm.

UVA is what causes skin cancers. Recommending or dismissing UVA exposure is irresponsible, especially in places with tons of UV radiation. Dermatologists go extra to teach people to choose sunscreen with good UVA protection, meanwhile Applied Science (one of my favourite youtubers) - “UVA penetrates regular window glass; hey its not to be worried about”...

Seems there's actually some debate on the net benefit/risk of this exposure [0]. Yes it raises risks for certain skin cancers but the survival rate of these is very high, meanwhile exposure decreases a collection of other risks whose death rates are much higher.

So I think the right course of action is a little more nuanced than simply saying, "UV increases skin cancer risk therefore ignore everything else as well as magnitudes of net risks/benefits". Should we not weigh all factors?

https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure...

Actually, there was an article posted here (I think) not too long ago about a study that showed the positive benefits from sunlight were enough to outweigh the slightly increased chances of skin cancer.

I'll see if I can find the link.

Yeah I think it really varies by the region. Sure it's good to go outside in Sweden and England, but not in Aussie and NZ when you can get sunburn in about 15 minutes.

I've had couple of barbecue parties this summer in Auckland and NOBODY went outside until sun was way past 5PM. We preferred to sit in stuffy kitchen rather than enjoy beautiful beautiful outdoors. Even in middle of winter you can feel sun bite you as you stand in front of pedestrian crossing.

Trying to explain this to people visiting Australia is always amazing.

"It's so lovely and sunny here, why aren't you tan?"

"Because the sun is a terrifying ray of pain and death here."

The sooner we completely phase out CFCs and other stratospheric ozone depleting gases, the sooner we can go back to the good old days where you could enjoy that sunshine.

The prediction is 2050-2070 we will be back to the 1980 level of ozone thickness.

Scientists have been trying to combat the perception that it is to blame for the high prevalence of skin cancer in Australia for a couple of decades now - it will never be a good idea to 'enjoy that sunshine' the way people used to.

(2001 paper - https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/6944/503469e4f779e99884e144... " Sufferers of skin cancer today should more likely blame their affliction on skin type and sun exposure during their youth than any changes in ozone distributions over the last twenty years. Therefore it is safe to say that even without ozone depletion, Australia would still have a very high rate of skin cancer.")

Can't agree more. It was pretty crazy in the 70s/80s.

You had people literally baking themselves in the sun with tanning oils. Even after "Slip Slop Slap" was first promoted in the early 80s everyone was still trying to get a tan.

Wasn't the worst of the ozone thinning over the poles? Not sure the ozone layer actually affects sun exposure in Australia or NZ.

Over Antarctica, yes. But in some conditions (right winds? I forget) thinner patches of ozone do blow over the south coast of Australia, and does increase UV exposure.

...and this is why about a third of us NZers have vitamin D levels that are below the recommended level (5% + 27% ~ 1/3).

https://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/healthy-living/food-a...

Yep, whether it does or doesn't give you skin cancer, sunburn is really unpleasant. That's enough to put most people off.

Linked in sibling comment...

Thanks! That's exactly the one I was thinking of.

From wikipedia:

> Seasonal affective disorder is a mood disorder subset in which people who have normal mental health throughout most of the year exhibit depressive symptoms at the same time each year, most commonly in the winter.

I usually get depressed in the summer though, even when I get enough unfiltered sunlight.

There are all kind of things that happen seasonally that might dampen your mood (for instance people taking vacations, students being home from school, work being more/less busy, outdoor exercise options changing, etc). Your depression might not have anything to do with that and just be a random variation that happened to occur in the summer.

Most depression has nothing to do with SAD; it's merely a specific type. It's a type that has a fairly straightforward treatment, thankfully!

I often have a depressed mood in November and December when the sun is at its lowest, but my family also likes to make "the holidays" as miserable an experience as possible, so it's really no surprise and probably unrelated to light levels.

FWIW, I have the same symptoms in winter, but none of the reasons you list apply to me. I can easily see SAD being caused by lack of natural light, and I try to spend as much time as possible in sunlight (which is hard given a normal work schedule).

"most commonly", but there is some evidence that SAD is not triggered only by amount of light:

"This model also explains the otherwise confusing tendency of some SAD sufferers to get depressed in the summer. The problem isn’t amount of light, it’s circadian rhythm disruption – which summer can do just as well as winter can."

https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-th...

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