When I accrue time off, you as the employer and I as the employee have a written contract on what that time is for, when it can be used, and why it can be used. It places parameters on my time, yes, but it also is an actual agreement between the two of us, in objective terms.
Whereas unlimited PTO sounds nice, it also opens up more problems between myself and workplace 'culture'. It's so subjective and down to personal opinion as to whether or not I'm abusing the system.
It just tastes bad. I've worked in both environments, and I much rather prefer the structured environment. There seems to be far less drama and nonsense related to taking time off.
Unlimited PTO is one of those things that sounds great to potential employees who have never experienced it. Until you get in and realize you end up taking way less time off than if you just had 15 set days or whatever.
That's the idea behind it. It's a huge red flag for me.
But it looks fantastic on paper. The problem is you don't know how you'll be judged if you do take the time off. They'll never come and say "hey it looks like you took 5 weeks off this year". They'll just say "it looks like you're not realizing your full potential". So it allows for a lot more sinister manipulation and control.
It could even be coming from peers, managers, HR it doesn't matter. "Gee, so and so in on vacation... while we are slaving here at 8pm at night. - Haha. Of course he is, eye roll..." kind of stuff. And maybe the employee was having a family crisis and needed to spend time with their loved ones but it's not something they'll broadcast but people will imply various things and assume not the very best of intentions.
If the company is so darn generous, just give everyone 6 weeks off and make everyone take it.
Exactly. It can also be incredibly inequitable. My previous job had a rule about not “abusing” the policy, but no one ever defined what abuse looked like.
One of the final straws for me was hearing from someone from another department that they had taken 5 weeks off over the last 12 months whereas I worked over several holiday weekends and spent time away from family due to the pressure of “needing” to get something done.
But, IMO, any company with this policy needs to establish some guidelines and management from the top down needs to walk the walk to show that they really expect employees to take 4-6 weeks off (or whatever) and stay home if they're sick.
Otherwise, it's just about keeping liabilities off the books.
> Whereas unlimited PTO sounds nice, it also opens up more problems between myself and workplace 'culture'. It's so subjective and down to personal opinion as to whether or not I'm abusing the system.
TBH that sounds like the problem was that there wasn't a policy and they just said "unlimited PTO".
I loved having "unlimited" PTO. Our policy was, for all practical purposes, the same as any other PTO policy, except no accrual. I wasn't a manager, so I can only comment on my experience, but I took 5 weeks off in my first year and nobody said a word about it. I know a few people got "warnings" for taking a lot more than average, but it had to be a LOT, and it was still always approved. And then we got bought by a company with a terrible policy :(
A big problem I have with limited PTO is that it's a limited resource, so I hoard it because I don't want to "waste" it, and then I end up not taking much.
And I don't think I'm the only one. With the unlimited policy few people would work from their mechanic's shop, or the airport, or the doctor's office, or anything like that. Realistically they weren't going to be productive, so they'd just take the time off and not worry about it. They didn't work 4 weeks to earn that day off, so it wasn't a big deal.
However this idea of "0 agreement" between employer and employee is starting to grow on me. Time after time and article after article we see employers screwing employees for various reasons, including incompetence. At this point it seems like finding a genuinely positive actor is as much a matter of luck as it is dedication. So I suppose it's time to change/
I no longer subscribe to workplace or employer loyalty. After working in the industry for ~8 years I can never see myself staying at a company for more than 4-5. I don't trust my manager, HR department, C-levels, policies, etc. Hell I tell people upfront in interviews that I'm a terrible employee but very good at my job.
Cycling back around to your points:
>Whereas unlimited PTO sounds nice, it also opens up more problems between myself and workplace 'culture'.
>...I much rather prefer the structured environment. There seems to be far less drama and nonsense related to taking time off.
I counter with: What workplace culture?
Edit: Formatting.
In the last century I worked for CBS. At the time, CBS had a policy where vacation rolled over from year to year. It was common for people to save up for a few years in order to take off for an entire month or two.
When Westinghouse bought CBS, a memo went out that the policy changed to use-it-or-lose it. The memo went out around October, so for the next two months there was a massive crush of people trying to use their accrued vacation before the end of the year.
On the plus side, a lot of the young employees and interns had to cover for the veterans, and in doing so got a lot of front-line experience they never would have anywhere else.
Then when the vets came back from vacation and quit because they were pissed they'd lost so much banked vacation time, those new employees and interns all moved up in the ranks and ended up running the joint.
(A broad generalization company-wide, but certainly a noticeable shift in the unit where I worked.)
In some HR systems you’re basically lazy-provisioned PTO time as it’s taken, so your amount of accrued PTO Time is always reconciled at the same amount of PTO time taken, leaving the available balance at zero.
In other systems, you technically have zero days of PTO available, and when you use it your balance goes negative. Which gets zeroed out at the end of the year.
In both cases, your PTO balance is never greater than zero, so you never have any unused days that would be subject to pay out.
They don't.
https://hrdailyadvisor.blr.com/2017/05/24/permanent-vacation...
"For similar reasons, more employers are also experimenting with open or unlimited leave policies, which can offer the same benefit. The general idea of an open or unlimited vacation policy is that the employee doesn’t really accrue or earn a set amount of leave per pay period or year. Rather, leave is unlimited and may be subject to few, if any, restrictions beyond supervisor approval and a reasonable assurance that assigned duties, projects, clients, and other workload-related details are managed during the worker’s absence.
Here, because employees are not accruing a set number of wage-equivalent hours per pay period, no compensation interest vests. After all, you can’t very well pay out “unlimited” vacation at termination."
I read that as if you are in a role with no backup or reasonable cover for your duties you can never take vacation. As I often find myself in that position I'd shy away from "unlimited vacation" roles.
I've never seen a company the doesn't track time off regardless of their policy.
If I'm negotiating comp with such a company, I would add what would normally be the PTO I would receive at a place which has it as a defined benefit and use that number as what I would need to be offered in order to accept a position there.
So don't expect any decisions or statements made by companies offering "unlimited PTO" to be fair - or many any kind of sense, otherwise.
Oh no, somebody setting boundaries and not working weekends? Unacceptable!
It's certainly possible there were other issues, but to me this sounds like sour grapes for not having the courage to pull off such a genius move yourself.
Assuming that's correct, what are you complaining about here? That the guy was time-shifting his weekends, or that he was actually making use of the policy?
In either case, why is it an issue?
The unavailable thing came down to being reachable in case of a support issue... I have no gripes about it what so ever.
No idea if he was otherwise a good co-worker but neither of those facts by themselves raise a flag for me.