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Comment by sixtofour | Hacker News Reader

I've had essentially this conversation with my son. Mine breaks down to:

  - Attempt to walk away from verbal abuse.
  - If it gets physical, fight like hell until the threat stops, then walk away.

Your goal is not to "win" or injure, your goal is to walk away.

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Coming from a larger geek here. In many cases the threat stops immediately but it doesn't change the nature of the abuse. I had other kids hit me in the face and run away. If I pursued them I was the bully. So I was left with two options; pursue and be the monster, or get used to being hit unexpectedly.

With all the highlighting of bullying recently, it's reminds me that there could easily be a different dynamic here. Kids are smart and adapt to rules. If they can control someone with accusations of bullying, they will do so. Remember that being a bully isn't about size it's about abusive intent.

You can apply the same surprise-attack and bully-accusation strategies on them, can you not?

If a kid that weighs 130lbs complains about the kid that weighs 200lbs, he is taken seriously. It's not the same in reverse.

There was a size disparity there of a similar nature (although it was more like 130 vs 90 at that age most likely) with two different guys I dealt with in middle school who were just constant with the random hitting/slapping (their favorite)/other annoying/embarrassing things.

Once I got a warning (I literally dented a gym locker with his head, to the coaches amusement), the other time an in school suspension (picked up kid, threw into chalkboard), but both stopped the harassment. The other kid may have been punished too, but don't honestly care: As they were then leery of me, I was then no longer constantly harassed by them. The point isn't to "win" by getting them punished by the administration and reforming them from their bullying ways; it's to assert "I am not the lowest status guy, go find someone else to screw with"

"Until the threat stops". Perfect words. That will work its way into my new and improved speech.

I agree strongly with this.

I was hardly picked on in school because I'd just ignore any teasing... and the first time I let it get to me I stabbed the bully (in class, in front of the teacher) with a pencil and sent him to the doctor.

I got off with just a chat to the headmaster... not even a very stern chat, because the staff all liked me as a good student and disliked the bully because he was a known bully. Doing the same thing now would probably lead to expulsion and charges of aggravated assault. If I had a child today I'd be telling them to make sure they drop the pencil first; using fists would probably work nearly as well, and a suspension for fighting on your school records means nothing in the real world.

It's a bit sinister, though, don't you think? If you're dealing with a vengeful bully, the threat never really stops until you've injured him enough that he will be unwilling or unable to hurt you back later.

The trick is to damage one of them badly enough (albeit non-permanently) that nobody else wants to try. I generally found that picking somebody clean off the floor by the throat and holding them in midair until the look came into their eyes where I knew they thought they were going to die was a good option. Doesn't give them much except a day or two of a sore throat in terms of physical damage but you only have to do it once every two or three years to be marked "not an easy target".

I disagree with this. This creates a situation of; throw a punch, does he give up yet, throw another, ok, surely he wants to stop now. That's how you really get hurts. You've hit the other person so the fight so it's on, and now you're stopping.

Personally I would advice that you do whatever you can to avoid a fight, but if you must fight you go until the other person is incapacitated or you get separated (in school this happens really quick anyway). Once you start a fight all further reluctance has to go out the window or you're going to get hurt.

No, your goal is to instill fear in your enemy, not the kind of fear that makes them fight back like a wounded animal, but rather the kind of traumatic fear which makes them unlikely to treat you, or anybody else the same broken way again.

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