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Comment by njarboe | Hacker News Reader

"consumers prefer processed foods, sodas, chips, things placed in boxes and plastic"

These things also last on the shelves for a very long time. Grains can store well, but other products like meat, fruits, vegetables, quality baked goods, etc. don't.

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Not to mention the seal means you know it hasn't been handled by other customers. Who knows how dirty the unpackaged "fresh" food has gotten.

Probably not any dirtier than it was when it was growing in the dirt. That's why you wash fruits and vegetables before eating them.

Even packaged foods like bagged lettuce can be very dirty (contaminated with E. coli) as well.

One would expect the dirt they grew into wasn't rich in human-specific pathogens.

One would be wrong. Common food born pathogens are abundant in farm soil, generally from human or animal waste. Lettuce is much more likely to have picked up harmful pathogens at the farm than it is from customers touching it.

Other customers touching your produce should rank very, very low on your list of concerns.

I don’t remember the last time I died from eating loose fresh fruit and veg.

These things do in fact happen:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_listeriosis...

So the worst outbreak since tracking began in the 70's, left 33 people dead with a median age of 78.

When compared to decreased life expectancy from high-calorie high-salt processed foods I think I'll take the risk.

That outbreak wasn't caused by people handling the fruit at the store. Packaging wouldn't have stopped it.

meat is carcinogenic. as for fruits and vegetables, i'm hoping that someday the local food production revolution will start picking up steam and help make these more cost effective, perhaps with some automation or vertical farming. for now, focus on things you can get for less than 1$/lb like bananas, apples, bell peppers, onions, cauliflower/broccoli (when it's on sale). Cabbage 50c/lb even here in CA.

meat is not carcinogenic

Perhaps OP was referring to bacon?

In that case, I would be better stated that nitrates are carcinogens not bacon itself.

And nitrates are likely only carcinogenic if cooked at very high heat, i.e don’t burn your bacon and best not to eat cured too often anyway.

Source: On Food and Cooking by Harold McGee

in which case the source of nitrates is plant or mineral. oh the irony

I think OP is referring to carcinogenic effects linked to red meat - in some ways it‘s healthier because its iron is the easiest to absorb, in some ways it‘s not by giving you 20% or so higher risk of intestinal cancer if you consume more than a certain amount - don’t remember the details. My stance is, duh, everything at the right dose (like 30-50g per day on average would be my bet for red meat and red fish). Plenty of animal protein sources are AFAIK not linked to adverse effects as long as you‘re not overstressing your kidneys, i.e. eggs, white meat/fish, cheese.

There's also some evidence that high levels of iron are linked to intestinal cancer.[0] So maybe the meat is just a proxy of iron. My takeaway is that the links between X food and Y disease are still largely a mystery. The correlation may be there, but the cause is not understood.

[0] http://nautil.us/issue/67/reboot/iron-is-the-new-cholesterol

There is some evidence suggesting an association between red meat consumption and colorectal cancers. I don't think the link is well-enough understood to suggest it's a causal one, but I also don't think it's any longer supported to flatly dismiss any possible links out of hand like that.

Toasted whole grain bread from organic grains grown, milled and baked in your local community is also carcinogenic.

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