Comment by pascalxus | Hacker News Reader

Comment by pascalxus | Hacker News Reader

You really have to differentiate between the food that's offered at a dollar store and everything else. I shop at the dollar store for things like shampoo, deodrant, toothpaste and it's superb deal, not in any way making me poorer. on the contrary it saves me money. for groceries, you should shop somewhere else, unless your looking for dog food.

the reason there aren't more grocery stores selling good food is because no one wants that. Consumers are in charge and they've spoken loud and clear: consumers prefer processed foods, sodas, chips, things placed in boxes and plastic. I've even seen parent who boycott schools trying to remove cookies from the lunch menu. At a certain point, people need to start making good decisions about what they buy. and yes, you can buy healthy AND cheap. Rolled oats (aka oatmeal is available for 50c to 1$ per lb, even here in the CA!) . and that's 22 times cheaper than a meal at McDonalds. Compare => 3 meals at mcDonalds => 22$ vs Oatmeal 1 lb = 1600 calories which makes it about 1$ per day. And oatmeal is high in fiber, protein and countless minerals, super low in saturated fat, extremely low in sodium and sugar. Sure, you'd want to add a couple of fruits to your basket: there's bananas for 55c per pound!, etc.

I ate oatmeal almost everyday for lunch for a year and it lowered my LDL cholesterol by 60 points! it's a real cholesterol fighter. And, if you do the math on everything, you can find great deals in veggies to: potatoes, onions, Beans, Corn (super highly subsidized), and the occassional costco spinach.

Once we start choosing good foods, stores will have no choice but to start selling more of that. Let the backlash begin!

Yep. Minneapolis recently experimented with requiring all stores selling food in the city to stock some "fresh/healthy" foods. It's been a disaster; it turns out that the reason these products weren't being stocked is because people don't want to buy them. Force stores to devote some of their limited shelf space to expensive, perishable items, and people still won't buy them, but now the prices on all other items has to go up to make up for the wasted expired food that gets thrown out.

These sorts of policies hurt the poor, and to a lesser extent, small businesses, while helping no one. And yelling about Dollar General is going to have the same result (if it has any impact at all).

> Once we start choosing good foods, stores will have no choice but to start selling more of that. Let the backlash begin!

Yep.

> These sorts of policies hurt the poor, and to a lesser extent, small businesses, while helping no one.

Public choice theory tells us that they help politicians who would like to campaign on the back of "I signed a bill ensuring access to healthy food for poor people".

I love oatmeal and eat loads of it, but we really need to avoid telling poorly-informed people that the path to cheap nutrition is to eat bland goo. You might think about it as a rhetorical example, but you need to remember that people won't remember what you say, only how you make them feel. The salient imagery in your post is living on unflavored oatmeal, and that's not appealing to anyone.

that's a good point. I didn't realize people thought of oatmeal like that. I really enjoy oatmeal. I put some bananas on it or some pumpkin seeds, or strawberries or a little bit of honey and the whole thing tastes absolutely delicious.

This cheap food tastes really great when you put expensive food on top of it!

Small amounts of expensive food is still cheap.

How are bananas expensive?

I put peanut butter, raisins, and walnuts in it. But before that, it was one of the few foods so bland I couldn't eat it, and I like unsalted vegetables and beets.

Oatmeal is not bland goo. It’s the black hoodie of breakfast. Gets the job done for a decent price to let you focus on stuff that matters.

Tell somebody who’s staring down a box of fruity loops its not bland goo. I 100% agree with your analogy, though, I used to eat oatmeal every morning cause it’s so easy, cheap, and filling. Nowadays it’s a blueberry muffin instead, making bad life choices over here.

Peel and dice an apple and add a bit of brown sugar and cinnamon to your water and simmer before you add the oatmeal.

If that still seems dull add a big spoon full of peanut butter to your serving bowl.

I usually use frozen blueberries and chopped nuts, but apple/PB is good too.

I put it uncooked into the blender and use it as a flour replacement. Works well as a 1:1 replacement. You need to reduce fluids about 20%. It makes great pancakes -- it does stick more and is less binding, so be prepared if you put it in a waffle iron. Probably need to use PAM to avoid a "bad time".

"consumers prefer processed foods, sodas, chips, things placed in boxes and plastic"

These things also last on the shelves for a very long time. Grains can store well, but other products like meat, fruits, vegetables, quality baked goods, etc. don't.

meat is carcinogenic. as for fruits and vegetables, i'm hoping that someday the local food production revolution will start picking up steam and help make these more cost effective, perhaps with some automation or vertical farming. for now, focus on things you can get for less than 1$/lb like bananas, apples, bell peppers, onions, cauliflower/broccoli (when it's on sale). Cabbage 50c/lb even here in CA.

meat is not carcinogenic

Perhaps OP was referring to bacon?

In that case, I would be better stated that nitrates are carcinogens not bacon itself.

And nitrates are likely only carcinogenic if cooked at very high heat, i.e don’t burn your bacon and best not to eat cured too often anyway.

Source: On Food and Cooking by Harold McGee

in which case the source of nitrates is plant or mineral. oh the irony

I think OP is referring to carcinogenic effects linked to red meat - in some ways it‘s healthier because its iron is the easiest to absorb, in some ways it‘s not by giving you 20% or so higher risk of intestinal cancer if you consume more than a certain amount - don’t remember the details. My stance is, duh, everything at the right dose (like 30-50g per day on average would be my bet for red meat and red fish). Plenty of animal protein sources are AFAIK not linked to adverse effects as long as you‘re not overstressing your kidneys, i.e. eggs, white meat/fish, cheese.

There's also some evidence that high levels of iron are linked to intestinal cancer.[0] So maybe the meat is just a proxy of iron. My takeaway is that the links between X food and Y disease are still largely a mystery. The correlation may be there, but the cause is not understood.

[0] http://nautil.us/issue/67/reboot/iron-is-the-new-cholesterol

There is some evidence suggesting an association between red meat consumption and colorectal cancers. I don't think the link is well-enough understood to suggest it's a causal one, but I also don't think it's any longer supported to flatly dismiss any possible links out of hand like that.

Toasted whole grain bread from organic grains grown, milled and baked in your local community is also carcinogenic.

Not to mention the seal means you know it hasn't been handled by other customers. Who knows how dirty the unpackaged "fresh" food has gotten.

Probably not any dirtier than it was when it was growing in the dirt. That's why you wash fruits and vegetables before eating them.

Even packaged foods like bagged lettuce can be very dirty (contaminated with E. coli) as well.

One would expect the dirt they grew into wasn't rich in human-specific pathogens.

One would be wrong. Common food born pathogens are abundant in farm soil, generally from human or animal waste. Lettuce is much more likely to have picked up harmful pathogens at the farm than it is from customers touching it.

Other customers touching your produce should rank very, very low on your list of concerns.

I don’t remember the last time I died from eating loose fresh fruit and veg.

These things do in fact happen:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_listeriosis...

So the worst outbreak since tracking began in the 70's, left 33 people dead with a median age of 78.

When compared to decreased life expectancy from high-calorie high-salt processed foods I think I'll take the risk.

That outbreak wasn't caused by people handling the fruit at the store. Packaging wouldn't have stopped it.

You need to watch out for counterfeit products in those dollar stores. I found one selling "Colgate" toothpaste that was not the real thing.

Interesting! May I ask what tipped you off? I admit to wondering about the difference in ingredients, whether the chalk (do they still use that?) supplier is different, etc.

At the local dollar store, a lot of packaged goods are from China and or are full of crap (even garlic is from China)

So one has to read the labels dillegently.

Examples:

"Othet origin tea, packed in Sri Lanka".

Chocolate hazelnut spread from Turkey that's mostly oil.

Etc.

Sri Lanka is a major tea producer, why do you think that this would be a poor quality product ?

Your other examples may be valid as stuff to avoid.

Actually Turkish food generally of good quality. OTOH, lots of the food items sold in "normal" supermarkets all over the country is made in China. For example, it is like 90% of all apple juice sold in the US made from Chinese concentrate,

> "consumers prefer processed foods, sodas, chips, things placed in boxes and plastic"

like toddlers prefer candies

An oatmeal recipe that I also consume for years: oatmeal, chocolate pillows (less than 5g sugar in total; that means around 10 of them (with the brand I use at least)), nuts, chia seeds, flax seeds, and some milk - not a lot of milk, though.

To me, it tastes perfectly and has high content of fiber, protein and carbs, keeps you full for quite some time.

Generally healthy and cheap.

What is a "pillow"? Do you have a recipe?

This is how it looks like: https://d2gg9evh47fn9z.cloudfront.net/800px_COLOURBOX4548557...

I think it contains a small amount of chocolate, enough for the taste. It's very similar to a cereal, just more "puffy" like a pillow.

No recipe - I buy it ready-made and use very small quantities of it (cause it has a lot of sugar otherwise)

> You really have to differentiate between the food that's offered at a dollar store and everything else.

Wouldn't you also need to differentiate between your ability to get to everything else vs getting to the dollar store compared to the population around you?

Incidentally, I don't think 1,600 calories at McDonald's comes to $22. A $1 cheeseburger is about 300 calories.

I mean, if it's just calories, you get unlimited drink refills for a $1.

Very refreshing to see people posting this plain simple reality. Not only is there plenty of cheap healthy food, if people wanted more of it—BAM—capitalism would be there in two shakes of a lamb’s tail to sell them whatever they want.

So, ban all advertising of processed foods. Run dense campaigns of public health adverts for fresh fruit and veg. Promote organic farming and tax poor quality foods savagely.

Is this capitalism? Maybe not, but pretty quickly there'll be lots of folks looking to eat healthy.

Nope. They’ll resent it and do the opposite.

That's not the way it's gone with smokes...

I think something people are missing here, though is that when you’re poor you work multiple jobs and commute into the city you work in but can’t afford to live in. You don’t have time to cook many nights so while you may want good healthy cheap food, you settle for the faster meal.

BAM. Being poor truly sucks.

My family was on welfare growing up. Most literally. We found time to make food that was cheap and nutritious (dry beans, dry lentils, cheap chicken parts). That’s how we got out of poverty. It’s the only way out of poverty. Saying something is difficult isn’t constructive, productive or particularly interesting.

Congratulation on getting out of poverty. That truly is something to be proud of. Do not, however, assume that your story is the story of thousands of others. Doing so isn't constructive or productive and could be harmful.

It does go both ways. That’s true.

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