Comment by str33t_punk | Hacker News Reader

Comment by str33t_punk | Hacker News Reader

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China is making themselves look horrible here.

Ms. Meng has a proper reason for being arrested (the allegations are that she committed fraud to bypass US sanctions against Iran and sell them US tech by lying about HuaWei and SkyComs involvement to HSBC). There will be a trial, this investigation has been happening for years, and it is by the Justice Department, not a request from Trump (who seems to have been caught surprised by the move). Canada didn't do anything, they are simply honoring their extradition treaties.

In contrast, China is just throwing a fit in response and arresting random Canadians on trumped up charges. These are clearly politically motivated (China had threatened Canada with 'consequences' -- the timing is way too suspect here). We have been given no reason why they have been detained, and there are no court hearings or anything -- they have just been 'disappeared'. With this move, China has shown how authoritarian and anti business they are. No justice department, no investigation. These are simply political hostages. Further more, it is completely spineless that they are going after the, less powerful, Canadian nationals, and not Americans.

Whatever it is, it's nowhere near is simple as the good guy / bad guy situation you're making it out to be.

US sanctions against Iran versus the "situation normal" with Saudi Arabia despite the state-sanctioned murder of a journalist makes a mockery of US foreign policy.

It's not as simple as that either. It's politics and money. ie. There will be no winners, and everyone involved is already covered in shit.

I'm not arguing for or against Iran sanctions. However, they exist, and the US has a history of enforcing such sanctions. Getting around sanctions is typically given large punishments (see the Movie 'War Dogs'). This is not some arrest on trumped up charges for 'national security' like the Chinese arrest

The fact of the matter is that there is strong evidence that Huawei committed fraud to breach US sanctions. This is neither a 'good' or 'bad' thing, it is just very illegal.

They are not random.

At very least, they are political actors, which is a dangerous job in China. Presumably they have been under watch by the Chinese government for a some time, and only now they decide to arrest them.

How did you come to a conclusion that randomly arrested two people? Double standard?

Different systems and real differences. China does not have the rule of law or separation of powers like western countries have.

In the west it's not easy for the executive branch to interfere with individual cases. US or Canada executive branch can't just tell justice department to arrest someone. In China that's possible and common.

This doesn't completely address the commenter's point. They asked how the GP came to the conclusion that they were arrested randomly which is a reasonable question. Not knowing doesn't mean your guess is accurate. Granted, one can take issue with the double standard question...but to twist it a bit, it's kinda a double standard to, without evidence/reason, say a country is doing something without evidence/reason.

There are charges laid against Meng in public, the whole world can see what she's accused of. So far, there seems to be rule of law.

The Canadians in China have vanished: we don't know why they if they have been arrested, charged, there's no hint of anything.

So yes - 'being charged in a court of law' is rather different from 'government agents arbitrarily grabbing you off the street'.

Once again doesn't answer the original question. How did the commenter come to the conclusion that two people were randomly arrested?

We still don't know why they have been arrested. The only reason that China has given was they were 'endangering national security'. Seeing that they use this reason every time they want to arrest a dissident, it seems like a random arrest.

> China does not have the rule of law

A quick look at Wiki suggest that there's at least some aspects of rule of law in China (1) - although with some defects.

I don't have the background to compare these defects with those of any other country (like the US's high incarceration rate (in general, and of minorities specifically)). I have lived a few years in China and Hong Kong and know a few lawyers and accountants born/working there. This experience has left me with a generally positive outlook.

I always try to keep in mind that my experience is narrow, but, sadly, people often have absolute opinions with even less experience, so it's always hard to gauge. I'm curious if this is a field that you've studied or work in specifically?

(1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_law#Rule_of_law

The fact that you conflate Hong Kong and the PRC mainland tells quite a lot. Hong Kong had the rule of law and still has a close approximation. The mainland doesn’t. If you knew accountants in both places you doubtless know that an audit from a HK firm is held in vastly greater esteem than a Chinese one because they’re less likely to be leaned on or threatened.

Did you know any business people? If you did you know how much contracts are worth when the other party has pull/关系.

Conflating them would have been "I lived in Hong Kong thus have an informed opinion about China."

I gave a link with specific examples of _experts_ saying China has rule of law but with limitations and asking someone with expertise to compare these limitations to those you find in, say, America.

All you're doing is repeating "China doesn't have rule of law." Unless you are such an expert (and you very well may be, but I have no way of knowing), don't you feel weird treating something as fact that people more informed than you disagree/debate?

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/thatschina

> After seven years building up a magazine empire in China, I had it stolen by the state. I lived in the grey zone that is China's media business and, despite my commitment to the country, paid a high price

https://www.baldingsworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/An-...

> A few weeks later over beers with a lawyer colleague, I recounted my tale of hysterical woe. He informed me that in reality, much of Chinese dispute resolution from neighborhood quarrels all the way through to significant civil and criminal litigation follow a similar pattern with open conflict avoided. According to him, recompense for damages all the way through to incidents involving death can allow people to avoid jail time. What I first thought a mistranslation, Negotiation Rooms existed to serve that purpose where every dispute from noise complaints to many business disputes to many acts that would qualify as felonies resolved themselves with official help in a Negotiation Room. In China as a foreigner, you become so used to being treated differently, both good and bad, that it surprises you to find out your experience is just like everyone else.

Since no one has any actual proof, I’ll just guess that the arrested Canadians are spies.

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