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Comment by root_axis | Hacker News Reader

Sounds to me like the rejection is a tacit admission by the company that you're too valuable to lose.

That would be a fantastic way to ask for a raise.

No, they would just tell you that you're lucky to still have a job. Even if they gave you a raise, you just increase your chances of being a layoff target since you cost the company more now. If you are saved from a massive layoff like that, you seriously need to find something new because you are next on the chopping block no matter what.

> Even if they gave you a raise, you just increase your chances of being a layoff target

But if you applied for a layoff and didn't get it, isn't that exactly what you want? And in the meantime you get to make more. It's a win-win!

It actually isn't. Often the voluntary separation offers the most severance or is close to it. Everyone left now has a ton more work to do while being paid the same and knowing that you won't be getting a raise or bonus. Everyone is waiting for the next round of layoffs. You also need to be careful that you don't make a mistake that would allow the company to fire you without offering a severance (I know one person who grabbed something from a late-night cafeteria and forgot to pay for it and was promptly fired the next day).

Amen, and worth reiterating.

From what I've heard from amigos working for big ISPs, you can often get 3-6 months of salary, and if you have decent skills (i.e. you've got job options) then it's often a paid vacation while you shop around for other gigs.

Meanwhile if you stay you know there is great acrimony ahead, big changes, lots of clueless newbies coming in, and potentially a crazy-high workload until the dust finally settles.

Why stick around when you can chill for a month, burn one-hitters until your homie at CenturyLink hooks it up, and bone up on certs or skills.

Best to get off of a sinking ship early, since that's when the biggest lifeboats are available.

The people who are left have to do more work and are less likely to get nice severance packages during the next round.

I don't understand how a company can think like this with unemployment as low as it is. They don't have much room to be calling labor's bluffs.

Healthcare + low skilled, low wage jobs (EMS, manufacturing, parcel delivery, warehouse work) are taking a lot of slack out of the employment market

Check out where job gains in the US were in November: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

Healthcare added +32k jobs, the majority of which were ambulance drivers/EMS jobs

Manufacturing added +27k jobs, mainly in chemicals and heavy metals

Transportation and warehousing added + 25k jobs, mainly in package delivery and warehouse work

Business services added +32k jobs

All other sectors remained largely unchanged

I don't think a 50YO radio engineer at Verizon is going to be happy retraining to be an EMS or package delivery courier. Labor, especially older and higher paid (non management) positions, is not in the best position right now despite the record low unemployment rate

Not really, they might just say no. If you really want a raise you need a competing offer or a clear market value indicator.

My thoughts exactly.

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