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I suffer from serious depression. I have tried to kill myself. It comes and goes in waves.

I was able to try an experimental ketamine treatment in the hospital.

3 doses administered via IV every-other day. (Monday, Wednesday, Friday)

The first and third were failures for me. Nurses talking in the OR completely distracted me and "stole" my awareness.

But the second one was perfect. I was able to feel nothing. I was able to shut off my mind and enjoy the single most peaceful moment of my life.

As time & work permit I plan on doing this again. Especially now that I know I need to be blindfolded and have ear-plugs in. (this sounds dramatic, but it's what works for me)

It hasn't cured my depression, but it has given me hope. And that's more then I have ever had.

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I can’t recommend The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk enough, I wish this book had been out 10 years ago before my mom took her life.

Nonetheless, it’s been instrumental in helping me alleviate my anxiety and depression. I read it a year ago and I can’t imagine going back to the way I felt then.

Specifically I’ve done two forms of therapy — EMDR and Somatic Experiencing — that were recommended (among many others) in the book.

Seems to have really good reviews. Is it something worth reading for somebody without a depression or a trauma? Any insight that stuck with you the most? I'm sorry about your mom.

I honestly read the book just because I consider myself an autodidact and student of human nature and it sounded interesting. While reading I realized that the traditional psychotherapy I’d done since my mother’s suicide was mostly just a way to cope with the tragedy rather than to heal from it (coping is still better than nothing though IMO).

I’d say it’s still worth reading to better understand the people around you who seem to act in almost objectively “illogical/irrational” ways, even when presented with better solutions. Even though such behavior is typically self-destructive, this book helped me to see the “logic” of it (Eg some obese women are obese because they were abused as children and they unconsciously overeat/eat junk food to make themselves fat and unattractive to potential abusers, so without resolving that issue no amount of healthy nutrition knowledge will help them, they’ll always regress).

It’s also given me more empathy for those around me, instead of feeling like they’re doing things “to me” I’ve been able to keep the bigger picture in mind and realize that people mistreating you is typically just a sign that they have unresolved issues themselves (that doesn’t mean you just let it happen without saying anything, but the increased empathy helps me handle the situation better).

> Eg some obese women are obese because they were abused as children and they unconsciously overeat/eat junk food to make themselves fat and unattractive to potential abusers ...

I‘m not a big fan of these kind of „logic“ explanations. I think the explanation can be a lot more straightforward, like by being treated worthless your whole childhood you‘ve internalised this feeling and now continue to do the same to yourself.

But yes, it‘s really helpful to somehow understand or least get an idea why a person behaves in a certain way.

To my understanding, the logic is that there's a hormone called leptin which strongly guides your eating patterns, cravings, energy, etc. Stresses and traumas can affect your leptin levels, so particular stresses and traumas can cause you to eat more. This makes evolutionary sense, since if you're in a famine, or an ice age, you better stock up on as much food as you can. Move slowly, digest slowly, don't lose any of it, because you never know when you'll run out.

Sexual abuse traumas get interpreted by some bodies as the same kinds of stress signals as famine, raising leptin, causing overeating.

So I guess the broader point is that some of the "unconscious logic" going on inside us isn't just habits or odd personality traits, but actual chemical processes.

Note that I got all of this knowledge from reading a Pop Sci weight loss book. HN, let me know if you know better :-)

Yeah, I hear what you’re saying, the book goes more in depth, and again the question becomes — so you’ve internalized feeling worthless, what is the solution?

I believe the book provides a key to understanding how to resolve those feelings that traditional psychotherapy lacks (with its focus on identifying the problem and acting more logically, most people know exactly what they’re doing wrong, they don’t need you to point it out, they need to resolve the underlying issue — which typically seems to be some childhood trauma).

While van der Kolk et al. have certainly contributed a great deal to the study of trauma and helped popularise ideas that have been known within the academy, he remains a controversial figure and spends a great deal of the text going off on self-aggrandising tangents. If you’re interested in psychotherapy in general or the interpretation of the human experience through a psychological lens, I would recommend anything picking up one of Rogers, Yalom, Frankl, or Satir’s books.

I’m undergoing EMDR for PTSD from childhood trauma. It’s kind of amazing how well it has worked for me, much more so than I had expected (I was skeptical at first). It hasn’t completely wiped the feelings and memories away but they are much easier to cope with and process.

I’ve tried nearly everything - Medication, counseling, support groups. EMDR has been the most effective treatment I’ve found so far.

I did some sessions of a therapeutic approach similar to EMDR called Accelerated Resolution Therapy (ART). I too was skeptical, and amazed at how well it worked. When I told a friend about it, he pointed me at the "Memory Hackers" episode of Nova, which isn't about EMDR or ART, but discusses the science of rewriting memories, and helped ease my skepticism about the approach.

I just got the book and have read through part 1 already. Thanks, it's a great book, so far.

Best of luck with your depression. I'm sorry to hear you are suffering. NPR today had a piece on deep brain stimulation as a treatment for depression. Very preliminary research and very invasive but something is better than nothing. [0]

Also, Michael Pollan's latest book on psychedelics is very interesting and has a specific chapter about using psychedelics to treat depression. It might be interesting to you. [1]

0. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/11/29/6718660...

1. https://michaelpollan.com/books/how-to-change-your-mind/

Can suicidal thoughts on daily basis categorized as depression or just a phase of life? I feel very disappointed at my current life condition and I feel like dying from the inside and feel numb sometimes. I cant afford a therapist at the moment but a lot of people are shrugging my issues as phase of life and I cant help it but feel dejected.

Think it’s quite normal to have issues as a phase of life. Regular Suicidal thoughts is however something to take seriously. But dealing with issues for me took breaking a bad pattern and progressively working towards a better goal. Earl nightingale “the strangest secret” is worth watching... for me what he speaks has become true. Things I know for a fact takes bad thinking away is Changa but it’s something you either neeed to educate yourself in very thoroughly or have guidance. Most other drugs are too dangerous for most especially if you are in a fragile state. Breaking bad patterns can be things like getting away from a girlfriend, having a new job, getting a new interest, o finding the place where people will listen to you ... for me slacklining did wonders as it’s almost like meditating.

What is slacklining? and Changa?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slacklining

Walking on a line of dynamic webbing that kind of forces you to not to think about anything else.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changa_(drug)

I have a post somewhere else in this thread where I describe it.

Thanks!

I have a similar story. It wasn't a phase. It was a daily occurrence for 2 decades. On a good day, it's easy to tell that voice to go to hell. On a day with depressive triggers... those suggestion cut deep, and deepened every spiral I'd find myself on.

I found a clean source, I get it tested independently. I take a few milligrams once every 1-4 weeks, depending on my stress / trauma load. Early on, I'd take some whenever the voice came back. Now I've learned what the edge feels like, I dose early enough to maintain silence.

I understand why pharmaceutical companies wanna keep this as a last resort. I've seen the treatment programs -- they're k-hole doses; nothing like what's been working for me. But there's no profit regimines like mine. And maybe it won't work more often than a placebo. But it's worked for me and that's what matters.

FWIW, the antidepressant effects of ketamine (7-14 days long) are unrelated to the hallucinogenic effects (45-60 minutes long) experienced at time of administration. You could be unconscious during the “trip” part and the antidepressant part would still do its thing.

I hope you get the help you need.

Psychedelics for this benefit should be done in environment without disturbances. That’s the reason I did them all alone and make sure the setting is perfect when I take others through a Changa trip. People who k-hole and do it them self build up or just take a big enough dose and often alone. For Changa even a mosquito can be a disturbance taking you out of the most perfect trip from a place you can never return.

Have you ever tried a float tank? Most relaxing experience of my life. It's like a blindfold and earplugs but for all your other senses, too.

Fwiw, the therapeutic effect is caused by ketamine metabolites that are not the involved in the ketamine high.

Take a look at neurofeedback I had friend who had a similar background and it helped him get through a deep depression.

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