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Comment by cmrdporcupine | Hacker News Reader

They made odd choices on the body styling. It's a Chevy Trax but squished horizontally. And the naming sucks. The drivetrain is amazing.

They also just don't seem to want to make enough of them or ship them to markets where people want them. Canada was starved for inventory all last last year. None went to Europe. Asia, where they'd make a lot of sense, got only a smattering. And they don't seem to be improving on this.

The fate of the Volt and Bolt together makes me entirely skeptical of GM's claims to making a transition to EV production. I used to be a big advocate of GM's EV designs -- they're technically excellent -- but I don't think I can get behind the company at all. I'm somewhat tempted to sell my Volt and get a Honda Clarity PHEV.

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> The fate of the Volt and Bolt together makes me entirely skeptical of GM's claims to making a transition to EV production

Couldn't agree more.

To add - my parents were in the market for electric cars and were evaluating the Bolt as a serious option. GM turned them away, including refusing to take a reservation and said "check again in 6 months when the new model year comes out". Seems like the production was very intentionally capped, and there was little effort to retain their business.

The cars probably lose money by themselves, only being profitable when looking at the big picture. (due to CAFE and similar) They are costly to make and typical car buyers are uninterested.

The cars exist because various governments have made electric/hybrid/whatever quotas that need to be met. The minimum required number will be sold. In some jurisdictions that number is zero. Each one of these cars is sold at a loss, until you consider that the manufacturer is able to avoid fines or being entirely banned from selling vehicles.

Or GM just hates electric cars. Look at what they did with the EV-1, a vehicle they were apparently only making under duress. They had an exit plan in place from day 1, and it did not involve people commuting in electric cars.

When I bought my Volt, I found myself explaining the car to the sales guy. GM/chev did no training of sales and the dealers get far less maintenance revenue.

> They also just don't seem to want to make enough of them or ship them to markets where people want them. Canada was starved for inventory all last last year. None went to Europe. Asia, where they'd make a lot of sense, got only a smattering. And they don't seem to be improving on this.

They lose several thousand dollars on each car, so the reluctance to expand production is perhaps unsurprising:

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1107604_gm-loses-9k-on-...

Demand exceeds supply and they lose several thousand dollars on each of them? If only there was some sort of market driven mechanism to solve this issue.

They are willing to take the loss because they have fleet wide emissions targets. So they will sell just enough to allow them to sell the SUVs they actually want to make - but no more.

That's the culprit. Fleet emissions targets should allow for credits to exceed targets so you'd get more points for over achievements.

I've heard others (including GM) dispute those numbers. They were very back of the napkin.

Yes, there's no way it's as profitable as a Silverado or Equinox. But the only really expensive part in them is the battery pack, and volume production of that could bring it down.

GM _did_ sign a deal with LG Chem to open a big new battery plant in Michigan. Not sure what the status of that is. I believe battery supply is the fundamental constraint on Bolt production, not demand.

Ah, the Honda Clarity, the only vehicle uglier than any hybrid or electric that Chevy or Toyota can muster.

(I rather like the styling of the Bolt, actually)

Yeah I'm not pro-Clarity. It's technically inferior to the Volt -- though it has more interior room. It's just that Honda isn't laying off almost 3000 people in the province of Ontario like GM is. I'm feeling a bit nationalist, maybe.

I sometimes wonder if there's a requirement for making electric/hybrid cars "ugly". Like nobody will know you're driving an EV if they don't slap some bizarre styling on it!

The new Prius models look like somebody took a spaceship from an 80's B-movie and decided to model a car from the concept.

The Clarity looks as if they took an Accord but then punched it in the lip. And then they tried to make the back look like a Prius for who-knows-what reason.

The Bolt and the Leaf look like they're just trying to scream "Don't take me on the highway!" at the top of their lungs. But then since that's basically true--they're made to be an efficient commuter car--the styling was probably never going to hide that.

Even the Model 3 has a bizarre look to it, but I'm not sure if it's just because I'm used to expecting the hood to look a certain size which is simply not justifiable if you don't have to fill it up with a gas engine.

Then you get the other end of the spectrum, where they try to retain the styling of the gas equivalent as much as possible, so you've got the Kona EV continuing to have a grill but it's actually closed and painted.

It's probably somewhat lose lose. People are used to styling that makes sense for gas cars and so practical decisions for EVs lead to "abnormal" styling. As they become more popular we'll probably get used to them.

I assume it's function (aerodynamics improving gas mileage) over form. I mean, when a car's selling point is its range, you should do what you can to maximize that within its class.

I don't really find the Clarity or Prius or other EV's offensive looking. They look just as boring and uninspired as most other modern cars to me.

The hybrid Camry looks exactly like the newer gas Camry from the outside.

Its a signaling. Toyota makes a hybrid camray/rav4, that you can only tell by noticing the badge has a blue background.

Prius like shapes are associated with hybrids (they were one of the first), so there is some part of the market that says I want people to know I'm environmentally conscious. Hatchbacks are pretty convenient however...

I figure car companies have a better idea about styles are popular than the rest of us. If EV cars tend to look different, there's probably a reason.

Or the companies are full of people who are just winging it day to day and doing what they think is best. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bolt/Volt teams are full of junior people because GM's management still thinks electric cars are golf carts for sissies.

For the old Leaf, they wanted to maximize aerodynamics above all. I assume costs dictated the rest. The bug eye (which I actually started to like now) is because of that – that, and to reduce noise, which can be quite noticeable when you don't have to hear tiny explosions.

For the other automakers, my cynical opinion is that they dont wan't people to like EVs. "Don't make me change my business model, EVs are ugly. See this EV? Ugly. Buy this beautiful car over here instead, which happens to not require retooling of my production line."

Normal looking hybrids are definitely out there - take a look at Kia and Hyundai. They have several models of hybrids that look just like a regular car. There's a Toyota Avalon hybrid too. I think they are out there, but you don't notice them because they don't look stupid like the Prius or all the EVs.

They also just don't seem to want to make enough of them or ship them to markets where people want them.

The fate of the Volt and Bolt together makes me entirely skeptical of GM's claims to making a transition to EV production

Supposedly, the shutdowns are expressly so that GM can devote more capital to the Bolt & it's future brethren. If they have Bolt supply problems, cutting production lines to free up capital sounds like a good move.

Personally I am excited about plug-in hybrids, but allegedly a lot of the industry is starting to think PIH's will be but a flash in the pan, being totally eclipsed by all-electric by 2025.

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