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Comment by black-tea | Hacker News Reader

Why do you work for Google for no pay? OpenStreetMap always needs work. Help the community.

Honestly for me it boils down to Google maps being just a superior app. It's not even the amount of data in itself(which is a lot already tbh) but just the app being better. I don't think I have seen a decent OSM app yet.

OsmAnd is far superior to Google Maps in my opinion, especially for backcountry offline navigation. It's one of the most important apps when traveling abroad or when cell service is spotty. Google Maps is basically useless in rural South America, for example... and OSM is actually more up to date than Google Maps when it comes to river crossings, etc... and POI data is available for offline use. Google Maps can't even do offline navigation and rerouting.

Is that the ugly one where you have to download huge regions to offline just to look at where you at right now?

Huge? Not so much... OsmAnd uses vector maps, which are very small, compared to "offline" Google Maps tiles.

A couple hundred megabytes for an entire country's road system is not "huge".

Like the mobile app itself, Google Maps offline maps are also vector based.

Then how come an offline region of a national park in Google Maps is a larger download than the entire state in OsmAnd?

A couple hundred megabytes to show me a map of where I am right now is huge.

You can use "online" maps and it only downloads the visible region on your screen. It's not a few hundred megs "just to show you where you are" that is utter nonsense.

How about you just actually use the app before you make baseless accusations.

Well I asked whether this is the app with only offline mode, which would imply large downloads. You said that offline mode is so small that it doesn't matter. I didn't make any 'baseless accusation', I am working off your reply, but still without any 'accusation' at all.

How about actually reading people's messages before claiming they're making 'baseless accusations'.

No, it's the one that supports both local and online maps.

Backcountry offline navigation in rural South America is far from what most people are using a mapping app for, though.

> Google Maps can't even do offline navigation and rerouting.

The iOS Google maps does offline navigation. I used it just this weekend on a long distance trip. You have to download the data beforehand, but if you have downloaded the data for a region you can search and route to any destination you want.

How do you tell it to download a specific location beforehand?

I'm not sure how to do in the iOS one but I ma sure it's possible because my partner does it. For Android you just need to go in the side panel and there is a Offline Maps button.

OK Thanks

It can absolutely do offline navigation - you have to tell it to download an area offline, but if you start navigation for a route that passes through out-of-the-way areas it'll prompt you to download the offline maps.

> Google Maps can't even do offline navigation and rerouting

Yes it can, you have to download the area in advance but I use it offline all the time as I have no mobile data plan on my phone.

The whole feature is clearly an afterthought. There are so many issues with it you're much better off getting another app that's designed for offline navigation.

How does OsmAnd handle traffic? For my commute I religiously use Google Maps to learn about accidents or other blockages to make my trip shorter. Can I do the same thing with OsmAnd? (I'm thinking no, but I'm unfamiliar with how traffic data really works, so I'm open to learning that I'm wrong.)

Let me know when it gets a trip planner and has a mapmaker alternative.

Both Osmand (osmand.net) and MAPS.ME (maps.me) are mobile applications with a trip planner. To make maps I recommend uMap (umap.openstreetmap.fr) which is superior to the Google Maps equivalent features in every aspects.

Cool, is there a trip planner on desktop? I primarily commute using public transportation so Google's integration with that is super cool and I'd really love something free (as in freedom) that does the same.

The Google maps app is quite slow and bloated now on my Galaxy S6 and Nexus 5X. I think OSM has a great opportunity to overtake them on the "app being better" metric. Too many features have been crammed into Maps.

Maps.me is great and better than Google.

Google Maps is a great app, but the data is sometimes lacking. Open Street Maps is far more accurate at bicycle routes in and around Amsterdam, for example. Google regularly misses optimal routes.

> Honestly for me it boils down to Google maps being just a superior app.

And it shall remain that way as long as people work for free on a proprietary Google Web 2.0/3.0 application whereas they could do the same work for a FOSS licensed alternative (such as OSM).

It's not quite "pay", but Google have a notion of "points" to reward contributors, who they call local guides: https://support.google.com/local-guides/answer/6225851?hl=en

Anecdotally it's mostly credits towards Google's own products, free storage, etc, but also freebies like subscriptions to the NYTimes Crossword, etc -- at least at the lower levels.

Never underestimate the power of fake internet points.

They're not fake if they can be redeemed for things that would otherwise cost real money.

Am I the only one who thinks that “Local Guides” is a needlessly misleading name? Before I looked up what it meant, I assumed that reviews tagged with “Local Guide” were actually written by locals, when in fact the author may just as well live on the other side of the world.

It prompts you to review/update info on locations that you've been to recently. Although you can do so for other locations as well.

You're doing work for google, so you can invest in google products more?

I usually get a free movie ticket every month or so.

Everyone keeps thinking it’s like a full time job but really it’s a couple minutes whenever I go to post a review.

> Anecdotally it's mostly credits towards Google's own products, free storage, etc

Not anymore. I finally reached tier 5, but there was no reward no free storage. I haven't received anything. It's B.S.

The tier system changed recently, it's a 10 tier system now, and tier 5 is much easier to get.

I still don't see any tangible rewards. There's nothing listed about tier rewards. The only reward I've seen is getting a useless sticker next to your name.

At high enough levels you also get invited to exclusive Google Guide meetups.

Google, Amazon and Apple to an extend are all making money by exploiting the internet community spirit.

Every time Amazon sends an email for you to “review” the product, they are asking for free labour :-)

Same with google here.

I always try to submit my changes to both. I would like OSM to be great but I find myself using Google Maps as well, it's good for me for both to be up to date.

Google maps copies a ton of data from open street map. The other day my oddly specific edit on OSM was on Google maps within 72 hours.

Google doesn't seem to do that in my area (OpenStreetMap is way more accurate and up-to-date). I'd be surprised if they do because of the legal consequences for tainting their database with unlicensed data.

Did you set up a follow up test to find out if this wasn't just a chance occurrence? For example, by introducing a feature that exists (some unmapped named side street), but subtly misspelled on purpose.

When I signed up for OSM I checked the box that I consider my contribution to be public domain. I'm sure google checks for that and only imports the public domain changes.

Since my only goal was to get friends to my house instead of some corn field a mile away I accomplished my goals. I can see how someone who makes a lot of contributions would want otherwise, but my goals are different.

How can I contribute to OpenStreetMap? (currently spending a few 5-15 minutes chunks of time on Google Maps)

Just go to https://www.openstreetmap.org/ and create an account, then click on the Edit button and start editing :).

Thanks! For some reason I though I had to download an app and upload and download xml files. (I think I did that a number of years ago but that might have been something else.)

You can do that. There are many different editors for OSM depending on your use case and level of experience. I use josm which is the more advanced option.

Found no Edit button but at least I was able to report a misplaced feature.

Also I realized OSM has got the house numbers in my street correct, contrary to Google Maps.

It's beneficial to the small businesses in my area whom I would like to succeed. I do it to help the meadery down the street, not Google.

It's way easier to contribute to Google Maps, and Maps blows OSM out of the water in features, usability, and data quality.

OSM != osm.org

Just as an FYI, data quality varies heavily based on location. Here in Lübeck, Germany, Google sucks and amongst other things shows non existant streets while OSM is simply correct.

In Pretoria, South Africa, OSM has information outdated by several years while Google does not.

I think SA had a big bulk import a few years back. Unfortunately while this got the map off the ground quickly it fails to build a strong local mapping community.

So point me to where OSM has an official app where I can verify edits with a few taps. Last time I tried to edit OSM there was quite the process and a complex set of rules.

Possibly an effort keep you from scamming people by changing bank contact info?

It benefits other Google Maps users.

Is it actively bad to moderate Google Maps?

Exactly—OpenStreetMap would get more contributions if they had more users. People want to help others, but it's not clear how contributing to OSM does this when so few people use their website.

This is a chicken and egg problem. If you want to support the ideas OSM represents your only course of action is to do so. Complaining that people aren't using it is a defeatist attitude.

And in any case, a lot more people benefit from OSM than you know. Consider that it's not just a website with a map on it, but a downloadable map you can do whatever you want with. There's no other free & public source on geography that even comes close to OSM's detail. And OSM is genuinely better for end-users than Google Maps in many respects.

I'm not complaining, just trying to explain why people don't want to contribute as much. You get the feeling you're doing work for an organization rather than improving a product for everyone. Some people are into that, but I think more people would contribute if OSM had a more usable product.

As opposed to doing unpaid volunteer work for megacorporation Google?

With OpenStreetMap the data I contribute is placed under a free software license and can be reused by anyone; I actively contribute to a community resource, rather than a proprietary database increasing some company's shareholder value.

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