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Comment by nscalf | Hacker News Reader

I would 100% talk about this in interviews depending on the interviewer. I can think of a couple interviews I had in SF that would probably be appreciative of this level of effort because you principally reject memorization.

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Admitting to significant academic fraud during a job interview is a very, very bad idea. Furthermore, I would question the ethics and morality of any company that said "Wow, you solved an incredibly tough problem in order to commit fraud. Boy, are we the place for you!"

> Admitting to significant ... fraud during a job interview is a very, very bad idea.

After serving his time, that's exactly how Frank Abagnale got a job in the FBI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale

Well, you need criminals to outsmart criminals.

I'm not sure why you need that trait in software. You're (usually) not trying to beat other programmers. So I suppose the parent comment should have added "except in adversarial situations".

Which means it does apply to cyber security. You need hackers to outsmart hackers. If that's the kind of industry you're applying for, it probably is a good idea to mention this actually.

Many EU startups won't be interested in your academic records but such a project would make them hire you on the spot.

That sounds interesting. Are EU startups known for less interest in uni credentials than US startups?

I'm not sure - but it became a meme in EU because other fields typically require good academical background, whereas IT is seen as done by punkers.

He’s the exception that proved the rule. The FBI never repeated that hiring process on anyone else.

That's different. According to that page, Abagnale served 5 years in prison (6 months in solitary confinement), and had to work for the feds for a while "without pay". Then when he first got legitimate work, he was usually fired.

I'd be willing to hire someone who cheated and was caught and served time, but not someone who cheated without consequence and boasted about it.

The commenter here doesn't sound like they segued that into a career catching academic cheaters. They just used it as a stepping stone to their next personal accomplishment.

> After serving his time

So there was nothing new to admit to, they already knew. Entirely different situation.

I find your point of view very narrow minded. I even admitted cheating in my bachelor's during my Master's thesis presentation.

It was in Switzerland, and culture is different; maybe we're less black and white.

If you cheated on an exam, it's a very bad negative signal for integrity there's no question about it.

This is not very grey.

If you were caught you would probably be kicked out of your Uni, this is a serious thing.

I understand there are extenuating circumstances, people are young, they do crazy things, we all have. But it's not something we run around talking about, certainly not in an interview.

> Admitting to significant academic fraud during a job interview is a very, very bad idea.

Sure, it's a no go if you're looking for a job at an academic institution, and a big company will reject you because fraud of any kind is a huge HR liability, but I bet nose people would be impressed.

It might be well received at a startup, though. As long as you recognize your action was highly unethical.

Like, I don't agree with you but I do see your point. I'd hope that a company would ask "and how do you feel about your choice to cheat?" open up a conversation about ethics and if you learnt from the experience. It's a can of worms and could result in a great interview.

They wouldn’t actually say that of course. They would just think it.

Hey, Kevin Mitnick still gets hired today, doesn't he?

As a public speaker and author mostly. He doesn't get access to state secrets and hasn't been employed by any other company. He wouldn't get a call back from McDonalds if he applied.

He's hired as a pen tester and gains access to companies, their secrets, etc. I have a sysadmin friend whose company hired him to pentest, and they kept in contact.

I would allow it (if these kind of skills to design all of this system is the skills that is useful for this job). You are honest to admit it, and if you can make such thing, it is good. Of course that was cheating, but that does not mean that such thing is only to make fraud; you might do similar thing with other thing too.

Once you admit to fraud, though, they have no idea what else you might be lying about -- including the admission itself. They can't exactly call his old professor to confirm that he built and used a cheating machine.

Plus, after you admit to doing it once, if I weren't the sort to reject you outright, I'd still call every single person and institution on your resume to confirm all of those were real. Right out of the gate, you're proving yourself to be a lot more trouble than anyone else I'm interviewing.

It sounds like mostly luck that they weren't caught before. Are they going to try again, at my company? I don't want my company's legal footing to rest on one person thinking they'll never get caught.

Of course, that is true (although it is also possible to lie without admitting it!). I am only saying how I might do (depending the kind of job).

Would be a fantastic answer to the YC interview question on how you've handed a system, though

Eh, probably some places (e.g. Uber) would love that kind of thing.

I wouldn't talk about it, because it's a project that happened 10+ years ago. It's better to talk about more recent successes.

It adds a human component to your interview. As the saying goes, programmers are lazy. Based on the components you describe, I think it's safe to say, that you're not an entry-level hire and you have experience in your field. It'll make for a great story and demonstrates passion.

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