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> If there isn't a big event downtown, or it's a slow bar/restaurant night, you'll notice there's considerably fewer of them. If the weather is harsh, you'll notice there's considerably fewer of them.

You observe this and the conclusion you make is that, 'many of the 'homeless' people are absolutely not homeless and simply know they can make much easier money off of people coming/going from bars and restaurants.'

or maybe they are homeless and know that their best bet of survival is going to the places with the most people willing to help them out.

or maybe harsh weather means that they aren't capable of being out in the open exposed to the elements, and are instead hunkered down somewhere where they can at least get minimal shelter.

I think the point of the article is that your surface conclusions from simple observations are probably not entirely accurate, and more likely a false assumption made by someone who has never experience homelessness and can't possibly know the motives or circumstances of that population.

>You observe this and the conclusion you make is that, 'many of the 'homeless' people are absolutely not homeless and simply know they can make much easier money off of people coming/going from bars and restaurants.'

The homeless population in Indianapolis congregates around the homeless shelters, not around businesses where police will tell them to keep it moving. As such most people here never witness the real homeless, where San Francisco you have tents alongside billion dollar businesses and police walking around people asleep on the sidewalk.

My point is, this article is shaming people for 'judging homeless' and that in some cities, the visible 'homeless' are often not homeless and are in fact con artists.

"Hey how dare you judge someone" well, when the ones many people are exposed to are scammers and not legit you get conditioned to be extremely wary of any person presenting as homeless.

Again, we passed a LAW here to discourage these scammers from making money by making it a crime to panhandle at intersections https://www.wthr.com/article/panhandling-law-loophole-lets-r...

And they are working on legislation to go after the panhandling downtown as well https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/09/14/indy...

Criminalizing homelessness doesn't end homelessness.

They aren't 'criminalizing homeless'. They're making it illegal to set up at busy intersections walking up and down cars "hey spare some change, spare some change" and from harassing people (I mean HARASSING) people downtown when they enter/leave businesses.

The common ploy downtown, since the smoking ban took effect, was to find groups of smokers "hey can I bum a cigarette" or "hey can I get a light". If you engage them, with a yes or a no, they then starting asking if you have any money or try to sell you cheap plush toys.

I am all for solving the homeless problem, I was profoundly impacted after going to San Francisco and seeing people literally sleeping on sidewalks. It's a huge problem and unfortunate HOWEVER people absolutely abuse the charity of others this is why cities like Indianapolis have passed laws about panhandling.

My whole damn point in this thread is the author is accusing people of 'judging homeless', my point is MANY people have never experienced proper homelessness, they've experienced con artists and addicts that BELLIGERENTLY attempt to extract money out of people. When your experience is primarily with those types, you get jaded reeeeeeallllll quick.

This article reads like

'I was homeless once and that makes me better than you, listen up while I judge you because some people judge homeless people'.

June 24th 2018, at 33 years of age, is the first time I have ever seen someone sleeping on a sidewalk or the street. In San Francisco. The first time I've ever seen someone living in a tent or improvised tarp and cardboard tent, was on June 24th 2018 at 33 years of age in San Francisco.

While I have seen actual homeless people here in Indy, it was never in a tent/tarp/lean to on a sidewalk or street, never someone's camp in an alley, it was seeing people milling about outside of a homeless shelter when they are made to leave until night and never once while in that area was I ever hit up for money. I have however been hit up, and driven by people with signs, countless times in other areas by people that looked absolutely nothing like the men outside of the Wheeler mission or the individuals I saw in San Francisco. Unless they pan handlers just abruptly became homeless, the simple state of their shoes and the cleanliness of their clothes and person screamed they were running a con unlike the legitimate homeless people I have encountered.

Here in Colorado we have "actual homeless". Going to a homeless shelter in the winter time provides a great sample. And, there are dangers in those shelters where homeless people are still too scared to stay there.

It's been enlightening to see the surveys of the homeless in my area: who they are, how they got that way, how long they've been homeless.

There are now even prediction models for how unlikely an individual is to be alive in a year if they check 8 of 10 boxes in part of the survey.

The programs I've most been impressed with are the ones creating a stronger resistance layer to falling from having a home to homeless. They save society so much money.

Forming and maintaining relationships, in addition to $, are also important factor. Consider where in your network, homeless people could join and connect with you.

>The programs I've most been impressed with are the ones creating a stronger resistance layer to falling from having a home to homeless

I live in Colorado as well. Out of interest, which programs are you referring to?

I was born/raised in a poor-ish place in south asia and you are generally trained by your parents to believe that most of the homeless/panhandlers are 'fakers'. This myth was quickly destroyed once I spoke to like 5 of them including some people that worked for me who panhandled in their free time (even when they had a job!). They would quickly lay the math out for you and it becomes clear very quickly that these folks don't do this by choice.

I think the faker argument is simply a story richer folks tell to themselves and their kids to prevent major cognitive dissonance since otherwise how can you justify the INSANE amount of homeless/panhandlers there? Branding these folks as the out-group makes it easy to turn a blind eye. No-one chooses to live 10x worse than the general population, beg and be looked down upon.

It's a pervasive cardinal sin for "working really hard yet still poor" people to hate on homeless people: to say they're faking, using drugs, crazy, lazy, etc. It's mean and evil, but unfortunately very common.

Another problem is the conflation of homelessness with heroine users. Forget the professional homeless (which my fiancee's parents have been at times). The problem is we treat both as "homeless" when they are very different animals. Social programs tend to elevate and help those who can be and it doesn't look like a dent is made because, statistically, the remaining homeless are either deranged (renting to newly rehabilitated homeless has wrecked properties I managed) or drug users.

>You can start by not judging the homeless.

It's not a complex topic, but the judgement is based on information and the existing information speaks volumes.

Holy smoke, talk about reinforcing stereotypes about Indiana

> talk about reinforcing stereotypes about Indiana

Because I think the author is unfairly JUDGING people claiming they're 'judging' homeless people? I imagine most of the population of the United States has never had an interaction with someone they would describe as homeless.

Not everyone is judging people for being homeless, most just don't have context for actual homelesness. The bulk of their encounters are people hanging outside of gas stations "hey man, ran out of gas, laid off, kids and wife back in car, dog died, trying to get to dying grandma, could you spare 20$" or the people with a cardboard sign "homeless need money" working traffic lights day after day after day after day.

People judge what they see, most people don't see the kind of homelessness that downtown San Francisco has, or NYC has. Most of the country is suburban or rural.

What I'm saying in this thread is, the author seems to be incredibly myopic using his own limited experience as a way to judge others for judging.

>What I'm saying in this thread is, the author seems to be incredibly myopic using his own limited experience as a way to judge others for judging.

This is quite a judgemental statement to make about someone who says he's been homeless for almost 20 years from someone who (I assume) has not been homeless before. Do you have less limited experience to make you less myopic? Also except we're reading different articles I don't know what you're talking about when you say the author is 'judging'. The article says homeless people don't always live on the street, have no education, do drugs or have no jobs, and you say "don't be judgemental, that's myopic". Does that really make any sense to you?