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Comment by ken | Hacker News Reader

Even if we assume that "UFO" means "space alien", it doesn't seem puzzling to me.

Answer 1: selection bias. Obviously the only ones that people see at night are those which have lights. We aren't going to hear about the ones that people don't see because they're dark.

Answer 2: alien apathy. You've flown a million light years to spy on some great apes who aren't even sure you exist. Who cares if a few of them get flashed with bright lights, while you're looking around? They don't even have flying saucers yet, so it's not like they could chase you.

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From a rational standpoint, I generally subscribe to the selection bias you (and Scriptor in a separate reply) raise as #1. However, for the sake of discussion, let's operate under the assumption these sightings are legitimate/noteworthy.

Personally, I grew out of bothering ant hills when I was about twelve. Nowadays, I pleasantly observe from high above. So why wouldn't aliens do the same?

In this case, your second theory fills in the gaps. But, one would assume some species capable of this technology would also have cultural norms about not interfering with less developed groups. Much the same way we (generally) try not to interfere with primitive tribes around the world.

I suppose, then, that the comparison could be made to the Sentinelese firing arrows at aircraft out of fear and suspicion. The aliens (in my opinion rightly) assume we would do the same to them because they are so foreign to us.

> one would assume some species capable of this technology would also have cultural norms about not interfering with less developed groups

I would assume nothing of the sort. It's not as if humans even really conform to that norm. It's a pretty recent trend, at best. With aliens of unknown evolution/history, all bets are off.

Very faint point which I predicted the keen HN audience would be quick to contend. My reasoning to assume so is a wholly intuitive instinct that all ultra-high technology societies converge in their moral and ethical norms to a common limit. That to have survived the gamble of existence long enough to reach such a point, this civilization almost certainly needed to adopt a set of values wherein the "Prime Directive" incidentally coincides. Though I concede that it betrays my personal beliefs more than any tangible insight.

For example, my hippie confidence does nothing to explain the likes of the Zerg or Tyranids, that's for sure. :)

fair not faint as I hope most readers surmised -- for some reason I did not realize this error until it was too late to edit

Human ethics vary amongst groups and cultures - even highly advanced ones. I don't see any evidence to suggest a convergence on a "one true" moral code. For a brief period western values seemed to take over due to the west's influence, but that is waning today rather than increasing in momentum.

>My reasoning to assume so is a wholly intuitive instinct that all ultra-high technology societies converge in their moral and ethical norms to a common limit.

We don't know that. We also don't know if the prime directive of aliens is the same as ours. By that I mean that whatever aliens may be visiting us may not be competitive whatsoever. Maybe their planet didn't have the same explosion with life that ours did so it's relatively empty of competition. In this case cooperating with others to expand as an instinct would be much more beneficial than competing. There is also no tangible evidence of the cosmos swarming with life, on planets or traveling so it might also be that -given how long it takes for planets to form stable orbits and how long it took on Earth for humans to appear and develop instruments to observe the universe- the universe is for the time being relatively empty of life. Some people revisited the drake equation and approached it as a coin flip: Sure there is a 50/50 chance but it's either/or, so based on their calculations the most likely scenario is for 0-2 times life forming on our galaxy. And FTL is still science fiction so it might be that the only species that can visit us are coming from other galaxies and have evolved to survive for billions of years. At the same time thanks to kepler we now know that planets with the characterists of earth are rather rare as are solar systems like ours. But there are a myriad of other planets with conditions too hard for humans but good enough for life found on Earth. In this case it might have been that some sort of life exists in the cosmos but it evolves much more slowly compared to us and thus needs a few extra billion years to reach space travel. So maybe the universe is experiencing it's first explosion of life and we are one of the first multi-cell organisms or step out of the water. Who knows.

Also we don't know how technology would have evolved should it be that Earth had a different composition. Like for example metals are fairly rare on the crust but yet they are fundamental to our function. Maybe a planet that has a 10% metal crust would have evolved towards electricity much faster than us. Or a planet with lower gravity and lower or no magnetosphere could mean that whatever species developed there could have achieved space travel much faster and easier thus increasing the incentive( in human terms) of developing ftl. Right now ftl is sci-fi for us but remember that yes, it was the military who developed the internet but all the applications and the development of the science behind it came once more people could toy with it.

I take it you don't do a lot of walking. People in cars are routinely assholes to pedestrians, presumably because they feel invulnerable.

Why wouldn't folks on space ships visiting a primitive planet-bound race not be 10,000 times worse about fucking with the locals for kicks?

What a bizarre comparison, albeit a novel rebuttal! I do think your argument rests too much on the typical assumptions/biases a human brings to the table given our experience in this specific time and place. See my reply to andrewflnr for a nuanced response.

Also, I do walk a lot! About 4 miles daily in fact. People in cars also happen to be assholes to each other. And to wildlife. Heck, they can even be assholes to others in the same vehicle!

You seem to assume folks in spaceships would be scientists or part of a Star Trek like organized fleet. But what if some of them are tourists?

Americans in cars aren't part of some elite professional military or scientific service. Most Americans have cars. It's the norm here. And being a driver of a car in no way guarantees they are well educated, sophisticated, civilized types. There are even people driving illegally, without a license or insurance or whatever. That's part of why they can be such dicks to people they perceive as less powerful -- because they don't feel particularly powerful, etc. themselves.

4chan on holiday.

He understands me.

> I grew out of bothering ant hills when I was about twelve. Nowadays, I pleasantly observe from high above. So why wouldn't aliens do the same?

Simple: the aliens that mess with us are delinquent eleven year olds joyriding their parents' saucer

I knew I wasn't the only one who watched Explorers in the 80s.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089114

And 3: the light is a unavoidable side effect of their propulsion system.

You ever see those guys that put neon lights under their Hondas?

What if it's just the cosmic version of that?

Genuinely can't tell which one of us is applying Occam's Razor here...

LOL, you have a point. What kind of individuals would volunteer for a possibly one-way mission that gets them in a stasis pod for a century?

Or small malfunctions of their propulsion or cloaking system, like an engine misfire.

Operating warp drives in atmospheres can cause a lot of Cherenkov radiation at the bubble border. One must be careful not to overheat the external hull.

Sorry. Couldn't resist adding one more speculative cherry to the top of this very tall tale.

You can generalize answer 1 even further. For all you know, there are hundreds of UFOs all around you that just have very advanced cloaking technology and only a few that don't. :)

Yeah, but they're here to watch the ones without cloaking. :-)

They all stop in Wakanda to fuel up and see the sights.

>Answer 2: alien apathy. You've flown a million light years to spy on some great apes who aren't even sure you exist. Who cares if a few of them get flashed with bright lights, while you're looking around? They don't even have flying saucers yet, so it's not like they could chase you.

I just read your reply and so I deleted mine which was similar, but a bit stronger; its not like we could possibly hurt them.

3. Human cruise ships (and airplanes) have bright lights too. What if it's just an "alien" cruiseship entertaining a bunch of interterrestial holiday makers?

Jack McDewitt's 'ECHO' comes to mind. Let's hope it's not a bunch of ill-behaved interstellar tourists. :)

Clearly they don't care much about the prime directive

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