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Comment by edhelas | Hacker News Reader

What about just stop buying those things?

Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it back and said that they made a mistake and forgot something.

They are just trying to press any last dollar from their customers, that's it.

When you were buying an iPod a couple of years ago you had the AC adapter, USB/FireWire cable (and long ones!), sometime some extra accessories (pocket holder for the iPod Mini). All those small extras were really adding a little plus to the experience.

Today you are just buying an expensive laptop, that you have to bring back to the Apple Store yourself (if you have one close by) if you have any issue. They doesn't cover some reparation costs that any other company would do. They are killing the 3rd party-reparation market. Also knowing that those devices are more and more fragile (seriously that keyboard on the latest MacBook).

Just stop buying those devices.

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I bought my 27” iMac 4 years ago, it’s out of all it’s warranties but when the hard drive failed a few months ago they waived the cost of replacing it. They scraped charging for MacOS upgrades years ago.

I had some system performance problems a while back and their phone support talked to me immediately and helped me through the troubleshooting process very clearly, again after I was out of warranty. No charge.

ICloud is a bit expensive so I don’t use it, but there are plenty of alternatives. I use Dropbox and Google Drive. I can see the convenience being worth it for some people. Let the market decide.

Apple gear is pricey, but I’ve never really felt nickel and dimed. I know some people have bad experiences, but for me once I’ve bought their stuff I’ve got excellent and quite generous after sales support.

This sums it up. Apple has built up a lot of good will over the last decade or so. It will take a while for current Apple to burn through it.

It is quite rational for current management of Apple to monetize this goodwill, maximize share price and their bonuses because who cares about tomorrow? Or actually insider's behavior of this kind is a a leading indicator of what the future may bring.

The hard disk was a few weeks ago and the support call just last year. Pretty sure they still do that. Also they’re pushing hard on this device longevity thing, as being an environmental as well as customer satisfaction issue. Then there’s the dramatic improvement in performance in iOS 12 for older devices.

They’re not perfect sure. The Touch Bar is a bit meh, the new style keyboards had issues, but these were misjudgements not deliberately user hostile moves. In fact they spent big developing those things.

So they must follow a "Get Right Up To The Creepy Line And Not Cross It" strategy. They'll cross as sales of iPhones drop. (I have a 6 year PC, works perfectly fine. )

>Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it back and said that they made a mistake and forgot something.

There is a power cable, just not a long extension that also used to be.

>What about just stop buying those things?

What about we still want them, and we don't want to buy and suffer a subpar (for our criteria) alternative just to get them to be more generous with their profit margins...

The only way that you matter to them is how much you bring to their bottom line. This isn't the Steve Jobs era where you have a sole visionary crafting something of value. This is a run of the mill hardware company charging luxury prices for above average hardware in the best of cases and a ton of vendor lock in.

For mobile phones there is only Apple or some kind of Android, i.e. Google.

I’d rather pay $1500 for a phone than have Google in my life again.

What if you are an iOS developer? You have no choice but pay or abandon all your experience you gather for years developing iOS apps and slowly start specializing in android. Maybe that's the way...one of my dev friend bought PC and focus now only on Android.

Given that most newer laptops (and phones) support charging via the same USB-PD standard (via USB-C) I don't see the reason for including yet another power adapter in the box when the average user probably already has enough of them at home.

I charge all my laptops (Macbook Pro and a Thinkpad) and my phone (Pixel XL) via the same Apple USB-C charger. I'd rather not have yet-another-charger that I'm not going to use included in the box of my next laptop/phone.

They could just use the iPhone's USB-C charger for their MacBook. Oh wait.

I'm the opposite. Chargers have a usable life after which they stop working, and I'd rather not lose the free charger that comes with a new device I buy just so I can have the privilege of paying $$ for a new one in case my older one breaks. Also if you are selling your computer or giving it to someone else, are you expecting them to buy a new charger with it?

> All those small extras were really adding a little plus to the experience

I still get these kinds of extras when I buy cheap stuff from China (pouches, microfiber wipes, cables, USB chargers), and they all end up in a box never used and eventually thrown out. I already have 4-port 2.4A chargers everywhere I need a charger, I already have a million USB cables since they came with everything else I bought. At this point it's all just redundant waste.

> Just stop buying those devices.

It isn't about the devices. It is about ecosystems. Choosing a different device is about choosing a different ecosystem. Be it a phone, a laptop or a desktop computer.

We can pretend that it is just a matter of choosing a different vendor. But that would not usefully describe reality.

And Apple knows this, which is why they feel emboldened to milk their customers.

> It is about ecosystems

Just stop supporting those 'ecosystems'.

Right, I’ll just switch to the alternate ecosystem run by the guys who explicitly monitor every aspect of my life in order to target ads.

Staying with Apple products is an easy decision. Less easy than it used to be, but still easy.

There are other 'ecosystems', but hey if you want to limit yourself to two crappy choices then go right ahead.

Ah yes, how could I forget about the coveted “doesn’t actually meet my needs” set of ecosystems?

Yea, because I need to be nickel/dimed, or spied on for revenue.

If you want to understand why people do not feel they have much of a choice you should listen to them. I’m sure you can make do with products that are part of less usable ecosystems or exist more disconnected from any ecosystem. But that isn’t true for everyone. Assuming it is doesn’t result in useful advice.

The software I use for my work and hobbies is only made for Mac and PC, so I’m kind of limited in that regard (unless I change my career and my hobbies).

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