Users complain that Apple is 'nickel and diming' them
businessinsider.com
businessinsider.com
Seriously if I'm buying a laptop one day and I'm finding out that there's no power cable in the box, I just bring it back and said that they made a mistake and forgot something.
They are just trying to press any last dollar from their customers, that's it.
When you were buying an iPod a couple of years ago you had the AC adapter, USB/FireWire cable (and long ones!), sometime some extra accessories (pocket holder for the iPod Mini). All those small extras were really adding a little plus to the experience.
Today you are just buying an expensive laptop, that you have to bring back to the Apple Store yourself (if you have one close by) if you have any issue. They doesn't cover some reparation costs that any other company would do. They are killing the 3rd party-reparation market. Also knowing that those devices are more and more fragile (seriously that keyboard on the latest MacBook).
Just stop buying those devices.
I had some system performance problems a while back and their phone support talked to me immediately and helped me through the troubleshooting process very clearly, again after I was out of warranty. No charge.
ICloud is a bit expensive so I don’t use it, but there are plenty of alternatives. I use Dropbox and Google Drive. I can see the convenience being worth it for some people. Let the market decide.
Apple gear is pricey, but I’ve never really felt nickel and dimed. I know some people have bad experiences, but for me once I’ve bought their stuff I’ve got excellent and quite generous after sales support.
They’re not perfect sure. The Touch Bar is a bit meh, the new style keyboards had issues, but these were misjudgements not deliberately user hostile moves. In fact they spent big developing those things.
There is a power cable, just not a long extension that also used to be.
>What about just stop buying those things?
What about we still want them, and we don't want to buy and suffer a subpar (for our criteria) alternative just to get them to be more generous with their profit margins...
I’d rather pay $1500 for a phone than have Google in my life again.
I charge all my laptops (Macbook Pro and a Thinkpad) and my phone (Pixel XL) via the same Apple USB-C charger. I'd rather not have yet-another-charger that I'm not going to use included in the box of my next laptop/phone.
I still get these kinds of extras when I buy cheap stuff from China (pouches, microfiber wipes, cables, USB chargers), and they all end up in a box never used and eventually thrown out. I already have 4-port 2.4A chargers everywhere I need a charger, I already have a million USB cables since they came with everything else I bought. At this point it's all just redundant waste.
It isn't about the devices. It is about ecosystems. Choosing a different device is about choosing a different ecosystem. Be it a phone, a laptop or a desktop computer.
We can pretend that it is just a matter of choosing a different vendor. But that would not usefully describe reality.
And Apple knows this, which is why they feel emboldened to milk their customers.
Just stop supporting those 'ecosystems'.
Staying with Apple products is an easy decision. Less easy than it used to be, but still easy.
There is a SINGLE driver of price for a is product: how much people will pay for it. That’s it. If people are willing to pay the price of a product, then that is the fair price of it. Simple as that.
You can get into some game theory about the sweet spot of lower price vs volume vs profit, but Apple seems to be doing pretty well in that area already.
Also we’ve reached a plateau of innovation. Things were just about right circa 2011/2012. Everything else since has been quality, privacy or usability regressions disguised as innovation.
I buy stuff now because it needs replacing due to being worn out not because it gives me an advantage.
Perhaps I could get used to it after awhile but I would rather not have to relearn how to use a keyboard when it is so different from the ones I use for my desktop and work machine.
Yeah no. Actually there are two main drivers, the one you mention (called “demand”) and the one you’re leaving out (called “supply”).
The concepts of supply and demand aren’t even a little novel or unheard of.
So it’s the interaction of people’s willingness to pay with the availability of other options or close substitutes, and the desire of firms to supply those items at a given price level.
Yeah, no. What the parent said covers both demand and supply. Price is exactly what people are willing to pay given both demand and supply.
In a theoretical competitive market. Not so much when some companies have exclusive access to parts of the supply chain, thanks to years of vertical integration and supplier financing.
The actual selling price and quantity sold is determined by the interaction between supply and demand.
This concept is first day, first hour, of any discussion of economics.
We're talking about prices as verified by millions of transactions (Apple's unit sales), so that's already solved.
E.g. the actual prices they managed to sell things, not just some sticker price for unsold products.
If you’re going to try and be a pedant, at least base your reply on the actual argument you’re responding to.
It's worth noting this is a neoclassical view (if we take it to mean supply and demand solely determines the price of a product) but there are other views too (Sraffian, Ricardian and Marxian, for instance, though these are more oriented on value than price). I don't think the quick answer to the question offers enough explanatory power as to why many (most?) people in the market would pay that much for it.
As for the iPhone: I'd like to keep my home button with TouchID and my screen without the notch. I'm not sure what to upgrade to when this iPhone 7 Plus, which by the way cost a fortune, breaks.
Apple seems to have crossed a line. They're no longer selling good products at a premium. At this point, they're basically milking their customers. I hope this backfires severely for them.
Want a fully-loaded 15 in. MBP without a touch bar? Too bad. I don't care that it shines when using Garage Band because I don't really use Garage Band.
They appeared to kill the Macbook Air when they dropped the latest iteration of the Macbook, only to bring back the Air last month.
Sure, these machines are all still well-built and should meet the demands of their users. But Apple's ability to communicate and ship their various product lines is getting noticeably worse, and that raises fears for the future (rightfully so.)
Because at the end of the day, we're not just buying laptops and phones, we're committing to the ecosystem that these devices grant us access to.
Who uses Garage Band, ever? Such a limited piece of dumbed down Logic X garbage. I go buy good software for music and delete that st but, man!, that program is like cancer—it just keeps coming back.
Now, THAT is frustrating.
I'm not fully satisfied by the hardware options at the moment, same touchbar sentiment but I don't think the rest is so dire stupid crap like not including extension cables, and inflation is also a thing FWIW.
I think a really good monitor or docking/egpu box would go a long way for the laptops lack of ports. Holding on to my 2013/2015 in meantime
I'm also still getting by with my 7 Plus, and my hope is that next year we'll see a model sans notch that I can upgrade to. I can't imagine that Apple would have gone down this path without some plan about how to eliminate the notch in a reasonable (2-3 yr) timeframe. OTOH, we still have a camera bump, and I thought that was very un-Apple also!
Lastly, I'd point out that the 7 Plus was expensive, but it's also a high-performance/high-quality device with a longer useful life than most non-Apple phones. I've had my for 2 years already, and plan to keep it for 3. I assume I'll sell it for around $275 next year, which means the monthly cost of the device is around $17. Not bad, considering I bought it when it was the latest-and-greatest!
Linux is great on the Desktop, especially for programming. Be sure to get a computer that can run it, like a Thinkpad. My laptop has significantly better specs than a Mac that is at least $1000 more expensive, and has a much better support plan. They will drive to my home the next business day to fix anything that breaks.
I agree that it is absurd to pay $800 for a phone that lacks features I want and has features I don't want. So I didn't. It's that easy.
Why are people buying these $1200 phones that have taken away pretty much everything?
Also, how can I remove the Google surveillance code from the phone? I just dont like that they trac my location, record my conversations and inject spam into almost every “product” they got.
Comparing any Android device to iOS is hard because the the former is a data collection device with some features reminder of a mobile phone while the latter is a mobile phone primary designed and build for the best UX.
>What are those next two major Android releases include that I need?
These are future releases, so not sure. Android 9 'Pie' should be available soon and the features included in that can be researched with your preferred search engine.
>Also, how can I remove the Google surveillance code from the phone?
You can install a third party ROM if you'd like. LineageOS doesn't come with Google Play Services.
>Comparing any Android device to iOS is hard because the the former is a data collection device with some features reminder of a mobile phone while the latter is a mobile phone primary designed and build for the best UX.
Use what you like. I personally find iOS to be terrible with ergonomics, UX, and just plain everyday features. You can't open zip/rar files, can't download MP3's, can't play m4a's, can't play .webm's, there's no file management system. I can do pretty much everything my laptop does on my $160 Android, but not on a $1400 iPhone.
The box was sealed, serial number was valid and unused (Apple can confirm this) and the warranty is valid as well. Buyer beware, there are some sketchy sellers on Amazon but if it is "fulfilled by Amazon" I would expect no issues with a return.
1. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075X4DCW3/ref=oh_aui_deta...
Here's my present life. I bought a System76 laptop about this time last year. I wanted to get away from Mac OS since Eclipse is terrible on it (shortcut-wise). I prefer Linux, as long as it just works. System76 offers that. Now the System76 battery is down to 90% of life after moderate use. My Late 2013 MBP is down to its 80% life after 4 year, the battery swells a bit, but still stays on longer and charges quicker than the System76.
Maybe on the whole the price is valid.
I wince every time I buy one (with 5+ years between purchases, the ASP is quite a bit higher each time), but the longevity of the devices does really soothe the sting of the price tag.
Then again I think they're sort of on to us; I have always believed that the best thing to do, since the device will last a while, is to max out every spec that you can't change yourself later, like ram. These days, though, every spec is something you can't change yourself later; you end up having to take their overpriced upsell on every item if you want a competent machine. It's a real slap in the face that they charge you $400 over the base price just to get a reasonably sized ssd for example (500gb vs the base 128).
500gb ssds compatible with the older macs cost about $99. I don't think I'm getting 4x the value out of having no choice about it, but they know they can get away with such outrageous prices because we don't really have a choice about it.
Or does the price tag make you eek out every last fl.oz. of longevity?
Even if a <whatever> with Linux on it wouldn't last 6 years, you could probably get the same hardware for half the price and replace every 3; you'd have a time-relative higher spec laptop for more of the time as a result.
e.g. my phone cost £60 2 years ago, at the time was essentially equivalent to a 2 year old flagship, but new. I should probably replace it soon, but at the same amortised cost, an iPhone would've had to have lasted me longer than they've existed. (And the current ones are more than twice as expensive, which wouldn't bode well for its replacement!)
What I'm saying is: I want the mac, specifically. And the fact that I know I can trust it to last 5+ years makes me less concerned about the overall premium price they charge for it.
I purchased the Gazelle. It's mid-level. It's a 7th gen i7. It has 32 GB of RAM. Runs Ubuntu 18.04. Has 512 GB nvme ssd. The video card is an integrated Intel. This is perfectly setup for running 5-10 docker instances locally, VS Code, Android Studio, and other tools all at once. I never swap, even with Chrome. C++ compile times are acceptable. Go compiles instantaneously. I got all this for $1600, rounding up. Good quality for the money. Build-wise, I dislike a few things.
The plastic shell feels cheap. There are minor creaks as I lift and carry it around one handed by the corner.
The keyboard has a number pad, which I find annoying. Linux in general is terrible about turning the num lock on. Some apps will have it on. Other won't. This makes the Home and End buttons (accessed by my pinky) unstable: will I get 0 or got the end of the line? For a 15" notebook, there should be no pad. It should work like the MBP. It does have a backlight.
The screen is good. There are no dead pixels (unlike the MBP that had them since day 1 but not in great enough number to get a replacement). It's not 4k. Rather it's good old fashion 1080p.
Battery life is an interesting topic. Ubuntu is not geared for great battery life. XFCE is definitely not. As a result I really only get about 4 hours. In its day, the MBP got about 6 hours. My problem is the battery decayed quickly with the System76. I don't think, and I could be wrong, that the battery should be at 90% in one year.
As to support, they are a little slow to respond. I also think they have an odd process. As far as I can tell, I don't get emails about tickets. I have to manually login and check the status. That's odd. Another oddity is that I can't figure out how to close tickets. I asked a question about the fan. They answered in a reasonable period. The ticket is still open. There is not button, as far as I can see, that allows me to complete/close the issue.
Do notice the price tag. A similar MBP is about $3k. Sure, it has a better graphics card, but it's a linux machine. Gaming is not my priority. This price includes user-replaceable parts. I can buy a new batter without going back to System75. I can replace the SSD without going back to System76. All the parts are standard (I doubt I can add more RAM). If I got a more powerful video card, I could do all of this and save $1k vs MBP.
As a quick aside, I'd love to see System76 move the mouse pad to the top of the keyboard. I don't think most people need a huge pad. A smaller pad at the top would prevent the palm from hitting it, which is a problem in Linux. So if there are any System76 reps reading this, give it a shot.
Just this morning I was pulling them out of my backpack getting off the train and noticed for the first time (I've had these headphones a year) there's a discreet 3.5mm headphone jack.
You know what didn't come in the box? A 3.5mm headphone cable.
Which means if I want to plug this thing into an old iPod or my docking station at work, I'd need to bring a miniUSB cable and an adapter. Or just go buy my own 3.5mm cable.
Very interesting design choices if you ask me.
I guess Apple's solution is to sell old models forever, rather than design new, low to mid-range products.
Are you sure you're not misremembering a student discount vs retail? Because the lowest end 12" early 2004 iBook G4 launched for $1100, and the 14" launched for $1300. That's in 2004 money, that's around $1500/$1750 (respectively) after 12 years of inflation. And the iBook G4 was not quite on the relative level of the new MacBook Airs (which I assume is what you're comparing to with that $1200 number). Double thunderbolt 3 IO alone makes them far more versatile in higher power activities.
I mean your post is kind of interesting as an example of how people's memories work with regard to pricing over time anyway.
For the lower cost, you get far better hardware (CPU, battery, screen, wifi included, etc) and software (10.14 vs 10.3, iWork included for free, good selection of free modern web browsers, etc).
If the iBook G4 seemed very reasonable, the 2018 MacBook Air should seem like a steal. It's not just better value (technology always does that), but lower absolute cost. The only thing they haven't done is drop prices faster than inflation, but that's a pretty arbitrary line.
Back in the day, I used to write addresses on bits of papers or print out a picture of a map. Did that become illegal since the iPhone came out?
One device can still be all the machine one needs, and it can still be a notebook or even a desktop machine.
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2003/10/22Apple-Unveils-New-G...
In 2018 dollars (adjusted for inflation) that is ~$1507.00. You can get a mid-level Macbook Pro for that now.
(not that i don't kinda want some air pods)
Wouldn't ever own a pair though. I am absolutely awful at not losing earbuds, so I exclusively wear over ear phones now. Much harder to lose.
I suppose it would be nice if you get extra free monthly storage per device you use your account with. Maybe a model where the amount of devices you have simply multiplies the free storage baseline.
Well, it _should_ be taking account your devices, which are also tied to your account, right?
Big news indeed.
Companies don't pass "financial success on to its loyal customers". They pass it to their shareholders or invest it in their future production and expansion.
>If they're not careful does this sort of thing open them up to anti-trust?
No. You need a monopoly for that (and it can't be a monopoly on your own brand - e.g. "only Apple makes iOS devices") it has to be on a general product category (e.g. mobile OSes). E.g. when MS faced such issues, they had over 95% dominance on operating systems in general.