Comment by ohyes | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ohyes | Hacker News Reader

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"Are the 16 hour/day guys the exception?"

I sincerely hope so, and I question the hygiene/health of anyone who spends 16 hours a day > 1 day a week in front of a computer. I certainly have done 16 hour stretches of coding, but I don't think anyone can sustain that for more than a day or two and still be sane. (I think you turn into rms, which can be seen as good or bad).

The message that I would like to give you is that of quality over quantity.

First off, you don't have to be at a computer to be solving your coding problems, keep a notebook, keep them in your head, write down answers as they come. Relaxing you think about a problem probably doesn't count against your concentration hours.

Secondly, if you are banging your head against a problem, it is probably time to take a break or get help with it... There are diminishing returns from struggling with a problem.

I don't doubt that you can spend more than 40 hours a week coding, but that seems like a shitty quality of life. Wouldn't you rather see the sun occasionally?

Wouldn't it be better for you to just work within the 40 hours, optimizing your use of them? Maybe find a way to get stuff done at work more efficiently, so you can spend more of your quota coding your side project?

It might also help to not try so hard when you are 'concentrating'. Let me explain:

I feel like if you are trying really hard, it takes more out of you mentally than if you are approaching it from a mentality of playing. Having more fun will definitely stretch your endurance for these things.

My mantra is to 'work' as little as possible to achieve my goals. So I like to turn 'work' things into puzzles/games. 'Work' is psychologically un-fun.

Interesting!

May I throw in my two cents?

For me personally, and because I am 22, and because I truly enjoy my job (game engine programmer), I tend to put in way more hours than I need to.

Way more hours.

On the order of 80-100hrs/wk. Of coding. (Which is to say, 80-100hrs/wk of actual thinking + typing. Not "time spent getting ready to program" or "time spent psyching myself up to begin working on the problem" etc.)

(Also, I love Vim. I'd likely be massively frustrated with all the programming I was trying to do, if not for ViEmu + Visual Assist.)

And damn, it's fun! The only strain I feel is from lack of sleep.

Also, I think the 'quality' argument is subjective. It's true that if you're physically exhausted, you can't work. But if I'm merely pushing myself, the output of my work is of a similar quality as when I'm living a "balanced" week.

But the insidious thing is, I have a personality where if I try to "balance" myself, I wind up mentally not "getting in the zone" for any of my projects. And for me, it's a little depressing to be in that state, because I am only capable of bug fixes / minor tasks. Nothing architectural.

So, in conclusion, I am certainly not planning on keeping up this lifestyle forever --- I'm just enjoying the 80-100hr weeks while they last. It's a similar feeling to being a kid staying up all night at a friend's house. It's fun!

I think it is much easier to do one job single-minded 80 hours a week than it is to do a 40hr and a 20hr job. When you have one job, you don't have to shift focus.

It's great to hear that you are loving your job. When I have a decent programming problem to sink my teeth into, I am just the same way.

out of curiosity, how do you count 80-100 hours a week? Do you keep timesheets?

100 hours is 14 hours a day, every day.

Nah, no tracking. But maybe I should, that would be interesting.

The reason I make those claims is because I don't do much else at the moment except "work" (which for me equals fun). I don't play any video games anymore except the one I work on, and even then it's usually only once a week. I don't use facebook. Etc. Hacker News is my outlet, typically before bed (like now).

Think of it this way... there are 168 hours in a week. A "proper" amount of sleep is 8 hours a day, which is 1/3 of a day. So 168 * (2/3) = 112 waking hours. Throw in the fact that I often have trouble sleeping, or go without sleep, and... well, you get the idea.

I'm not claiming that I typically work 100 hours. This week in particular has been unique. I'm just saying, for me personally, when I'm passionate about a thing, I wind up way, way more productive by obsessing over it and pushing myself than if I try to "balance" myself.

Also, when I'm in "hardcore work" mode, I can only focus on exactly one project. There is little or no room for any other projects, such as side projects. Even doing an unrelated small bugfix has the potential to completely destroy my enthusiasm / flow.

There are downsides, of course... one example that springs to mind is: my right wrist has been hurting me. Badly, actually. I've been ignoring it, but that's stupid obviously. I think it's possibly because of the shape of my mouse. (I've heard that I should get a "splint" to prevent horizontal / vertical wrist movement.)

Also I need to take care to ensure good nutrition, which I've been slacking on. Also, Vitamin D pills + B12 pills.

I got a sore right wrist during a Diablo 2 weekend, and it persisted for about 4 years.

In the end I had to get a chair of the right height, a desk of the right height and a wrist rest.

Take it seriously, the most important thing is an ergonomic work setup and some breaks.

I don't pull 100 these days, but I have a chronometer and I time my work sessions, usually aiming for 12 hour days at super busy times, which is about max sustainable for me

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