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Comment by e40 | Hacker News Reader

One of the biggest complaint I have been hearing is that scooters take space on sidewalks

As a 4+ mile/day pedestrian, the biggest complaint I have is many of them are ridden on the sidewalk. I've had too many close calls to count. I can't wait for the rainy season to start, so I won't need to worry about them anymore.

In CA, there is a state law that prevents them from being ridden on the sidewalk, yet the police in my city won't enforce it. Mayor told them "hands off" and near as I can tell, the Mayor is working a deal with the scooter companies. Money over safety. Disgusting.

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That doesn't sound like a problem with scooters on the sidewalk, but with riders not being courteous - and the appropriate fix is for people to take appropriate care, not to boot scooters onto the road.

It doesn't surprise me that there are teething issues. Scooters are new and most people haven't learnt how to ride one without making other people feel uncomfortable. That will change in time.

On the other hand, cars have been around for quite a long time and a significant amount of licensed drivers have also been unable to learn how to drive without making other people feel uncomfortable. Betting that we could somehow fix these problems by urging people to be courteous when we haven't yet gotten road-users in general to even respect the law seems like a stretch.

It doesn't seem like a stretch to me. We already have bikes on our footpaths where I live (NZ) and it's a non issue. Cyclists just slow down around pedestrians. People are clearly capable of sharing footpaths courteously. Maybe where you live people are just arseholes, but that's not the fault of the scooter they're riding on.

Where I live, bicyclists should by law be either on the road or on a bicycle path or one of a few designated shared bicycle/footpaths. There are really too many pedestrians for it to make sense to use the sidewalk for bicycles inside the cities, and of course the benefits of commuting by bicycle disappears when you have to move at the same pace as pedestrians.

Also, from my experience with traffic in general, it doesn't take many assholes to make a situation uncomfortable, nor does it take an asshole to be inconsiderate. If one in ten road users or pedestrians I meet every day has a sudden lapse in judgement, that's enough for it to feel uncomfortable.

where I live (NZ)

Ah, there's the disconnect. Where you live people are a whole lot nicer to each other.

I've have 4-letter words and middle fingers given to me when I ask niced for them to ride in the bike lane. I've had people threaten me, as well.

but that's not the fault of the scooter they're riding on.

Did I ever say it was?

See my reply to another comment here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18332259

It will never work, for the reasons I stated, unless the scooter operators go at the same pace as pedestrians, and we know they won't do that.

> and we know they won't do that

Actually, that's exactly what I do whenever I'm behind a walker and don't have space to pass.

I'm aware not everybody on a scooter behaves like that, but things will improve as time goes on. You are allowed to tell people when they are riding irresponsibly. They might do things differently the next day.

It's pretty scary to ride bike/scooter next to cars. Seems like a much better compromise to ride on the sidewalk when uncomfortable than the alternative. There just needs to be some sort of enforcement against ass-holery for those riding.

I suspect you haven't spend time on the sidewalk with scooters whizzing around you. They are not safe, and cannot be (on the sidewalk).

Pedestrians do not have lanes. When I step around the dog crap in front of me, I could be hit be a scooter operator not giving me enough space for my maneuver.

> They are not safe, and cannot be (on the sidewalk)

This is a strange thing to say. It's clearly false, and the alternative (putting them on the road) is clearly less safe.

I do think that the current model where Bird etc allow new users to jump on and go is problematic. It will probably work fine in the future when everybody knows how you are expected to ride them (i.e. full speed on the foot path is not cool), but at the moment things are a bit of a free for all. There's too much excitement when you get on for the first time, and no experienced riders to cool you down.

You are trading your safety for mine. You are lying to yourself if you think all scooter operators will be like you, and slow to walking pace when they go around pedestrians. I literally have 500+ data points, and I've seen it like 1 or 2 times. And then, it was only because there wasn't a straight line through the pedestrians because there was a crowd of them.

Just spent a weekend in Austin and I noticed that the Bird/Lime scooters are commonly ridden on the sidewalks unless there's a bike lane to be had.

Almost all the way on my 4 miles of walking per day, there is a bike lane. They still use the sidewalk in about 10% of the cases. That amounts of 5-10 scooters I see on the sidewalk on a non-rainy day.

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