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Comment by manfredo | Hacker News Reader

Video games are protected by the first amendment right to free speech and expression. Slot machines are gambling devices that take in and pay out money. The two aren't really comparable. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the regulations on slot machines only apply when they're used in real money gambling. Presumably, if someone built a slot machine that didn't take in or dispense tokens, and could not be used in gambling in any way, it wouldn't be subject to those regulations. But obviously this is a moot point since a slot machine without a payout is just a glorified random number generator.

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> if someone built a slot machine that didn't take in or dispense tokens, and could not be used in gambling in any way, it wouldn't be subject to those regulations

I did in the 1970's, and it's perfectly legal (roulette, not slots):

https://www.ebay.com/p/Las-Vegas-Roulette-Intellivision-1980...

Yeah, that's just not right. There are 3 questions to determine gambling: whether you pay something to play, whether there is a game of chance (a random number generator) and whether the game pays out something of value. Considering companies are making billions on virtual goods, I'd argue that a virtual good counts as a thing of value, and when tied to a random number generator (e.g., a loot box or virtual slot machine) then it's gambling (assuming it's pay to play).

I think where the connection to gambling falls down is the “pay to play” aspect.

That you are never forced to pay is a defining aspect of “freemium”. You are always given the choice to wait out the timer/watch an ad for your next upgrade/level/continue/bonus/lootbox, rather than pay.

Not necessarily. Right now the industry is largely unregulated, but that's more a question of enforcement than any sort of real legal protection.

In the US you can't build a slot machine that accepts money and dispenses tokens that have value. That's often how things operate in Japan, but the same model is generally illegal in the US.

It's questionable if spending real money on virtual currency to buy "loot boxes" that randomly give things of value is legal. And if that's legal, it's not obvious if changing the rate of rewards is legal.

In game items don't have value. If they did, then effectively all games with RNG mechanics would be banned. Heck, even the original Rogue would fall under that umbrella.

That depends on the game. I believe one big trend in gaming will be connecting in-game economies to real-world economies. That might happen by tokenizing in-game assets and allowing free trade via exchanges / auction sites.

Depends on the game. In multi player games where people can exchange items, people will pay real world money for other players items.

EX: People buying WoW gold.

> "buying WoW gold"

IIRC, Blizzard doesn't profit from that directly and explicitly prohibits it in their ToS.

That's simply the most well known example. Blizzard had a real money auction house in DIII which they got a cut of profits from virtual item sales so they clearly understand items have value. PLEX in eve online directly links real world money with their in world currency etc.

I could go on, but saying it's virtual is not necessarily enough to protect these companies.

They released their own PLEX clone ("Wow Tokens") a few years ago.

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