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Comment by graybolt | Hacker News Reader

So where else do you find capital, then, for something not focused on extreme growth? I've got plenty of ideas kicking around, and the experience and skills to build them, but they're entirely moderate-growth businesses with a ceiling of single- or double-digit millions a year in revenue. Most of them could be started for between $10-100k.

A bank is tricky; you put your own savings on the line, and most banks don't really care about your specific situation, just that you're a risky customer. I'd prefer not to use family and friends because that has the potential to destroy relationships. Angels are usually interested in large growth potential.

Where else do you look for capital?

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If you could really start the company for $10k, I'd recommend self-funding out of savings. Save up $25k working (to give yourself a cushion) and give it a shot. If you have the skills to start a technology business, you definitely have the skills to earn $25k of working capital with your labor. People start small businesses that way all the time, and you can too.

You are looking for a "risk-free obligation-free" option, which doesn't exist.

That may sound snarky to some but I feel like it's the right response. Sometimes we forget what risk really is (and why it pays well when it works) when we talk about romantic stories like this list.

Hmm. It certainly exists for startups. I've been part of teams for many startups where the team is shitty, the idea is shitty, and the startup has no future, but they're able to get funded to the tune of $100k easily before they crash and burn. There are certainly no obligations attached to most VC money.

Meanwhile, if I want to build something sustainable, even if I'm willing to give up a decent share of my company, and submit myself to oversight of how this money is spent and great terms for repayment or equity, I can't get anywhere. VCs aren't willing to consider a $XX MM market, only a $XXXX MM market. Even for a good team and a good idea, I've gotten nowhere. I'm totally willing to give up some double-digit percentage of a company, I'm just not willing to have to risk $100k if I want to start a company that requires $100k.

Expand quickly or crash and burn trying IS an obligation. Any startup would love to have years of no rush to try and figure out their business plan, but the most valuable commodities in the valley are time and patience, not money.

And you're saying you pitch decks to VCs that say the maximum value of the company can be double digit millions and then wonder why you aren't getting anywhere?

> VCs aren't willing to consider a $XX MM market, only a $XXXX MM market.

You're missing the point again. VCs can't consider an $XX MM market because if they did then they wouldn't be practicing Venture Capital. Again, it's a very specific type of investing which is seeking very specific type of risks and returns.

What you're saying is the equivalent of saying: "I have a basketball team and none of these football players want to join me". Yes they're athletes, and they might even make good basketball players...but they're football players for a reason - they want to play football.

> Most of them could be started for between $10-100k.

If you're in the US (or able to get a visa to work here a few years – admittedly a much harder prospect recently than it should be) and have technical skills, it's not difficult to find a job that will allow you to save $100k in 2-3 years if you're willing to live very frugally. At that point, you'll have the freedom to bootstrap your own company without giving up any equity.

I think you're best off doing some bootstrapping or prototyping first before deciding on what business to pursue, keeping startup costs in mind.

As others have said, don't expect much luck looking for a risk-free loan that let's you have your cake and eat it too unless it's from close friends or family.

If it's closer to the $10k range, start it yourself. If it's closer to the $100k range, you could try presenting to some local business organizations that offer favorable loans or apply for grants, but no logical VC is going to put out $100k for a $250k return.

All of those are options- just, like a fellow child commentor says, they have risk associated with them (not to mention, VC funding also carries risk!)

You also have the option to crowdfund in B2C and land a major contract to fund development of an aligned product to your own in B2B.

The best source of money is savings. Go work in a top company for two years, you may come out with $100k-$200k savings and a co-founder to boot.

Angel investors, strategic investors, and banks, in that order.

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