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Comment by acconrad | Hacker News Reader

I'm happy for you but this is a super privileged viewpoint that most people can't really learn from. I'd be happy too if I could just take a year off and do whatever I want. Most people can't do things like traveling to different cities and trying out a new place for 3 months. It's just unrealistic and only reflects and incredibly tiny population.

More importantly: has it really been the best thing you've done for your career? It sounds like you've had a great time but we don't know how this materially affected your career.

What about your sabbatical has made your career better now that you've done it? All I've seen is that you've open sourced a Hugo theme, read a few books, and you worked on a side project. Sounds like something plenty of people do with 40 hour workweeks.

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Appreciate the feedback @acconrad. I understand that I'm extremely fortunate, and I try to point that out in the introduction of my article. Like @whack commented, I'm sharing my personal experience---both the good and the bad---and all the better if there's an element to it that a reader can relate to.

As for your other point, does the best thing for a career have to make it _materially_ better? For me personally, the time off and self-reflection has been a better learning experience than if I hadn't quit, especially the ideas regarding agency and productivity, and these are things that will stay with me into whatever I do next.

I don't doubt that people with 40 hour workweeks can do the little that I've done, but if you see the goals that I set out for myself these were just a minor aspect of what I wanted to accomplish.

The jury's still out on if this was good for your career. The title is borderline clickbait due to this word choice.

I don't doubt taking a sabbatical was good for you in various ways, but your career is probably not one of them as of now.

I've taken numerous lengthy sabbaticals, and find them the only way to maintain anything resembling a fair work:life balance. But I am under no delusions of them being good for my career, they're practically explicitly anti-career - I deliberately walk away from the competition for extended periods of time. I've just chosen to not care, because I prioritize other aspects of my life differently than one who lives to work.

You both seem to be making the exact same point from different directions. Being a burnt out husk is terrible for your career and work performance. You both feel like the sabbaticals are restoring the life side of the work-life balance. Therefore taking a break is actually enhancing your career. Just like sleeping at night helps you accomplish more during the day.

Sabbaticals are beneficial in all sorts of ways, and it's possible those benefits may confer benefits to your profession.

It is not safe to assume those potential benefits will outweigh the substantial negatives of not participating in the competition while your peers continue without you.

I have a similar mindset and experience as you. American society is ridiculous in how rigid it is on this aspect. I essentially need to quit to get the balance I truly desire. I have no issues working for 6 months all day everyday totally dedicated and focused but then I need about 3 months to recharge. Trying to become sort of a “supertemp” but it’s not that easy. I am about to quit again, have been working for 8 months, 60 hr weeks, saved $25k and am going to do whatever I want for awhile. I am a top performer but I work in 6 month spurts of focus. I need that proverbial light at the end of the tunnel, focusing me and my efforts to the freedom that awaits.

If you apply a regret minimization framework to this decision, I’m 100% sure a focused sabbatical is better than working a lame job where the next year is the same as the last.

You severely need a splash of the real world.

Crabs in a bucket

> I'm happy for you but this is a super privileged viewpoint that most people can't really learn from. I'd be happy too if I could just take a year off and do whatever I want. Most people can't do things like traveling to different cities and trying out a new place for 3 months. It's just unrealistic and only reflects and incredibly tiny population.

To be fair, he says the exact same thing in his opening paragraphs. I think there's value in people sharing their experiences, even if it isn't directly applicable to 99% of the population.

I agree with your other points though. It sounds like he's happy with his decisions for personal-fulfillment reasons. He didn't do a good job of explaining how it advanced his career.

Agree re not explaining how it advanced his career. I did something similar about 10y ago. Was burned out so skied all spring, hiked and went abroad during summer, did a small amount of contract dev then gradually decided it was time to get back to real work. Don't necessarily think it helped my career nor was I expecting it to. Had to explain to recruiters and companies the gap in my resume which not everyone could relate to ... but ... so what. I had a lot of fun.

Thanks for the feedback, @whack.

Saying that it's the "best thing I've done in my life" is way too dramatic, but at this point in my career it has been the best thing I've done because of how much I've grown personally.

I don't consider myself a good writer so your point is very helpful.

(Hacker News is a threaded discussion forum, y'all! The addressee is structurally implicit.)

@acconrad This response feels unjustifiably bitter and negative. Joshua acknowledges his privilege in the second paragraph. His privilege neither invalidates his experience or makes it useless to share. While I too would be interested to know how the time off materially affected his career, I suspect that this hasn't fully revealed itself to Joshua yet.

Despite the misleading title, I still enjoyed the read.

HN is not exactly most people it's very easy to get remote gig or save up money that would let you travel in Asia for a year. I bet if it was a priority for you you could too.

I think a more accurate title could simply be "not working for a year is fun"... and then the immediate reaction is "no kidding".

Just due to fatigue (perhaps CFS not sure) I've taken 6 weeks off between jobs this year and last. The fatigue is probably why I'm getting crushed by these jobs.

Watched all if breaking bad, did stuff like that. No achievements. Its nice to just rest. With kids there is still a lot to do. It feels like no job + kids is enough to keep me fulfilled if I had unlimited money.

Ha, that would've been better!

Snark aside, it is good to take a step back and re-evaluate life priorities. And also importantly, to be more mindful of work life balance... and if you're in a position to do so, advocate for more positive balance between the two at your next workplace.

>I'm happy for you but this is a super privileged viewpoint that most people can't really learn from. I'd be happy too if I could just take a year off and do whatever I want. Most people can't do things like traveling to different cities and trying out a new place for 3 months.

Most people 18-25 can.

First, tons of people at those ages actively burn tons of money on BS like a useless college degree (and not even the kind that lands you an actual job). Not doing anything would be an improvement for them (and cost less).

Second, you can do that with no money at all (tons of people do it on $5 a day style, or getting some work where they travel to pay for the costs, or just using one of the several of networks where you can exchange places for free, etc.). I know lots of people at that age that work for a few months and live off that for the rest -- and I'm not talking about making a full yearly wage on those months, they just live on little. When you're young a futon and a few pieces of stuff will do. (I actually know older people living like that too -- in cultures where not following some career and making do with little is not considered "white trash" or "hippie", e.g. in the countryside in Europe and so on).

Also, you seem to be harshly criticizing the author and what he done in this span, but how are your choices working for you? Not great from what we read in your comment.

"tons of people do it on $5 a day style"

Fallback is important though; that is the "if I run out of money, seriously, then what do I do?"

There's a huge different between a $5/day lifestyle and a fallback to your parents basement vs a $5/day lifestyle and a fallback to, well, I guess I'll be living on the street.

The difference in cognitive load and stress between the two is staggering. Having a fallback is a very privileged position to be in.

Most entrepreneurs don't want to admit they can fallback to a parent's basement somewhere as it kind of kills their image.

>The difference in cognitive load and stress between the two is staggering. Having a fallback is a very privileged position to be in.

I dunno, in many cases I know (or used to know, not so young myself anymore) the fallback was either "back with the parents for a while to sort things out", "find some place to rent with/without a roommate(s) and get a job" (which could be waiting tables too). Nobody really has any "fallback" in the sense of money in the bank or family fortune.

So not much privilege required. As said, when you're young and without spouse/kids.

No, most 18-25 years old can't. For starter, 25 years old without college tend to have kids already. Some have other relatives that they have to help to.

Those without college degree have scrappy jobs if they have them and those with degrees as you said are in debt. Worst off are those with college debt but who did not finished college.

Nevertheless, young people without degrees can't really reasonably abandon their life.

> Nevertheless, young people without degrees can't really reasonably abandon their life.

Maybe in America. But when I was in Spain this summer, I met some Aussies who do seasonal summer work then go blow it all on word trips yearly. Said it was decently common among a certain crowd of people.

Yep, it's quite common. And as you say (and I mention above re: temp jobs etc too), it's a "certain crowd of people" not in terms of money, but because of having the mindset to do it.

Yeah, young people do seasonal work in America too then decide not to get a job when their work runs out. I knew a few people that did that, all had a fall back, most lived in the parents basement.

> tons of people do it on $5 a day style

How? That's $150 a month, I'm not sure if you can even find a place to live with that money.

Traveling the world there are several places where $150 a month is more than the locals make. And even where they aren't, there's things like free-camping, getting a place with several friends together, and so on.

Even in a first world country with $1500+/month average wage, getting by on holidays with €150-€200 is something a lot of younger friends do, if anything because they have to (not many saved from poorly paying and scarce regular jobs anyway). If you bunch up a few together, or just go camping, it's quite cheap.

The world or south east Asia? Even Eastern Europe is going to be tough on $5/day.

Asia, Africa, Latin America, even parts of Europe.

For comparison, in Greece there are tons of young (and older) people actually working full time for ~ €400/month.

(Before the crisis, in say 2006-2010 those were called the "€700 euro generation" for making around that amount per month, then considered very low).

Here's a similar case in Spain: "“We’re not mileuristas. We are just poor. I wish I could earn €1,000, but my generation is earning between €700 and €800 a month,” he says, adding that he personally takes home around €450 a month for a 20-hour week, and describes himself as underemployed."

https://elpais.com/elpais/2015/05/14/inenglish/1431604981_25...

On the plus side, learning to disregard resentful negative people is an important life skill and parent is helping teach it.

It's far better to be positive. For example a good friend of mine founded a successful crypto shop. At the time, I thought the idea was stupid. However I didn't say that, I told him I wanted him to succeed and I was happy to listen to him describing what he wanted to do and how he was going to do it. Now our friendship is even closer and he's doing great. While it's unlikely given his personality, if I had been negative I might have talked him out of a big success and that isn't what good people do.

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