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Comment by baha_man | Hacker News Reader

From the Google Webmaster Central Blog: "Try to use Flash only where it is needed... this makes you[r] site accessible to a larger audience, including, for example, blind people using screen readers, users of old or non-standard browsers, and those on limited low-bandwidth connections such as on a cell phone or PDA."

http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2007/07/best-uses...

I can think of a few good examples of web sites which use Flash effectively, e.g. the BBC 'Get Cooking' site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/get_cooking/

However, Flash normally seems to be used for displaying pointless, obnoxious splash screens which add no value for the user.

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> I can think of a few good examples of web sites which use Flash effectively

Youtube!

But why not use Flash for the entire site rather than just the video player?

Because when you display all that extra site stuff with flash you take away tons of simple but important functionality.

     copy/paste

     save as...

     view image

     copy image location

     Bookmark this

     Open in new tab

etc. you get the idea.

1) Copy-past works just fine, at least with flex 3 text or textarea controls 2) Saving the swf is easy, and you can view it any time 3) Images are usually embedded, and you can get them with a resource viewer 4) Copy image location - this is not necessary, as images are usually embedded 5) flash supports url fragments for navigate (path after #), so as long as the flash site uses fragments, it is bookmarkable 6) open in new tab works

I'm curious where you got this misinformation, anyway.

The difference is that for flash websites, the developer has to actively be 'nice' to allow these things (default=not accessible), whereas with html+css+javascript, the developer has to actively be obnoxious to NOT allow these things (default=accessible).

A basic understanding of flash, computers, combined with browsing the web and making observations and deductions.

    1) With HTML you don't have to use textarea controls.

    2) Saving an SWF is not trivial.

    3) How much of your target audience really bothers to find a resource viewer?

    4) It's necessary because your users don't have a resource viewer.

    5) So the flash developer has to know what 'url fragments' are in order to make portions of the app bookmarkable.

    6) I can't think of a flash app where open in new tab works.  Obviously it is not trivial to implement

Open in new tab only works to open the flash page in a new tab, subsequent browsing within the flash page does not allow one to open in a new tab.

because flash isn't always cross platform. those of us on linux had to wait 2 or more years (I really don't recall) for adobe to roll out a flash 9 from flash 7 for linux. It took another year after that to get it stable.

Also if you are blind how do you view flash websites? it has serious problems with usability for those who are disabled.

it also has usability problems for those who aren't disabled. I don't like flash websites because I can never find my way around. I can't run them through translator's either (an artist I like, who's native language is spanish, website is in flash, I can't read or translate the spanish because of that, and the english version has been coming soon for 2 or more years).

you gotta be trolling...

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=164464

> However, Flash normally seems to be used for displaying pointless, obnoxious splash screens which add no value for the user.

How is that relevant to this discussion?

It's a verbose way of saying 'Flash sucks'.

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