Hacker News Reader

Comment by taeric | Hacker News Reader

Depends entirely on how good you are at faking it. That is, if it can be easily seen that you are faking; then no, it is not as good. Not even close.

Your brother scenario is silly. If someone calls and I don't want to help, but can. I'll be honest and make my own choice. If they ask if this is what I'd truly like to be doing, I'll always say no. However, in most cases, I don't actually care what I'm doing. Could I come up with something more fun? Maybe, but just being social in any way is typically its own ends.

View on HN

On the far end of the scale, if you always answer, "Would you like to help us carry this heavy stuff down these stairs?" with "No, in fact I would loathe that, but I will comply in order to maintain the social bonds that are necessary to sustain my chemically-driven life functions for the long term."... then that will be problematic for your relationships.

I'm like you, I say yes often, and I'm honest about how excited I am to do it... but it comes at a social cost.

Sometimes its better to fake it and be nice, even when you're bad at faking it.

I think I misrepresented. Most people just ask, "can you come help?" To that I'll answer how long it would take me to get over there if I can, and start heading that way. Few people ask "would you like to help me" do anything. The answers really are different.

That is, you aren't faking it by being nice. You are just not bringing in extra crap to the discussion. Can you do dinner tonight? Yes or no. Not, I'd rather go do something with someone else, but if I have to be social with you, I can.

It is tough, because society is actually highly rewarding on bringing extra crap to the discussion many times. In humor situations, everyone actually enjoys it. And for situations where there is a jerk, society actually rewards it by putting up with it.

Linus has been a tough one. Often the community has relied on his behavior to help keep other jerks in check. People like to talk about how he is abrasive to nvidia, but they really are somewhat abusing the spirit of the crowd, as well. Problem seems to be that it is tough to know when to use a tool in your disposal.

     People like to talk about how he is abrasive to nvidia

That's a really good point. Overlooked in this discussion over Linus' manners are the times when he was abusive toward people who arguably deserved it, like nVidia who has historically not been a great community member.

To me the more important factor for whether “faking it” is adequate is what one’s motivation is. If it is merely as an act of fakery because other people expect something, then it’s a lot more like to be an act without merit. If it’s an integral part of striving towards being genuinely able to exhibit the behavior in question, then it’s a lot more likely to be received well.

I absolutely agree. If you're e.g. merely pretending to be nice to somebody in order to exploit them or harm them, that's obviously not a good thing.

I left angle that out of my original post because I really don't think anybody is doubting Linus' motives here.

I'm aware that some people think his attempt at self-improvement is misguided or silly, but I haven't heard a single person question whether his motives are negative.

> Your brother scenario is silly.

Sure, analogies are pretty flawed usually. I sort of regret typing it. Let's get back to Linus. What's the difference between:

  (a) A person staying respectful in their emails because it is natural and effortless for him

  --and--

  (b) Linus staying respectful in his emails because he's putting in conscious effort to stay respectful

I would argue that there's no difference! Because it's never 100% natural for anybody; it always requires some effort even if it's easier for some of us than others.

I think we would all agree that (b) would be creepy IF Linus was being deceptively nice for some sort of dubious or dishonest reason. Like a con artist trying to develop bonds so they can rob you or something. But, that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm taking him at his word here, but all indications are that Linus is just trying to get better at treating people respectfully because he thinks it's the right thing to do.

Bringing it back to Linus is easy. The times he stayed technical and on point, he gets things done very well. The times he chest thumped back at someone chest thumping to him, it actually worked decently. The times he just started chest thumping to a quiet person trying to help, that is just obnoxious.

That is, in this case, I'd argue he isn't "faking" it to not bring in outside crap. Just leave it out. Stay on point for the topic at hand and he does amazing. I'd go so far as to say I think he is a bit of a role model in those situations. Deservedly so.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com