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Comment by sebslomski | Hacker News Reader

Apple won't switch. They pissed of many people with the switch to lightning and were aware of that. They will probably do the same thing as with the headphone jack:

Getting rid of any kind of connector.

They already have the basics for that in place. It's just a matter of tooling now.

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Apple did sign on to the EU's "Common external power supply" standardisation process. They didn't however implement it.

In fact, Apple signed on in 2008 or 2009 to help develop the standard, which was completed + published in late 2010. Then in 2013, and again in 2014, they signed a agreement to extend to standard through to the end of 2014.

But... in 2011 or 2012 they introduced the lightning connector? And meanwhile, the the European Commission confirmed that all the agreements signatories, including Apple, are in compliance. There are some vague references to adaptors being available, and thus allowing them to be compliant with the (voluntary..) standard..

I think lightning will be replaced by USB-C - Some of Apples own products are moving to USB-C. But I find the history of the whole thing interesting. Had Apple taken a difference approach, one of cross-company standardisation, maybe lightning would have been delayed a little, but it could have also been THE standard. Just like USB-C is becoming today.

It's all a little reminiscent of Firewire, and Firewire's slow + painful, and ultimately - costly for consumers - demise.

Apple did sign on to the EU's "Common external power supply" standardisation process. They didn't however implement it.

I wonder if going with wireless charging brings Apple into compliance. After all, you can get any number of wireless chargers with whatever connector the EU likes this time around.

Drop the headphone jack... Drop the charging port... Make a completely wireless iPhone and tell the regulatory bodies to go stick their heads in a pig.

Maybe? My (layman's) understanding is that Micro USB is part of the "standard", and that any compliant Micro USB charger must be able to charge you phone. With some caveat around adaptors.. Hence how Lightning got the +1 - adaptors exist, so a Micro USB wall wart can be used to charge an iPhone.. I guess there is no reason a Micro USB -> Wireless charging adaptor can't be considered the same as a Micro USB -> Lightning adaptor - even if the whole "adaptor" thing is kinda skirting the entire point of the standard...

The point of the standard was to avoid power supplies becoming useless and going into the trash once the device they came with is no longer being used.

Yes, that's obvious considering the PR they used about the weight and number of chargers hitting landfill welhen advocating for the spec. But the inclusion of the Micro USB plug in the standard, as well as the name, suggested they wanted a single plug.

(I should add, I think a single plug, mandated by any kind of law - voulentary or not - is an overreach of government, as the best plug will change... Micro USB was the best (Standard) at the time. USB-C, despite its issues, is that today. Hence - I'd like a standard for chargers, but one that moves with reality..

I don't think the EU ever mandated any particular kind of plug, to my knowledge all they demanded was that the vendors find a common standard and use that and micro USB A was the compromise reached, which atm is being updated to USB C and expected to last a bit longer than µUSB-A.

If a new plug becomes best, the government can be convinced to adopt that as new standard.

Convincing a company or two to use something and prove it superior in the market would be far easier than convincing the EU to adopt a new standard.

Apple still hasn't been convinced. The only way to enforce things from happening in society, is by law and by following up on that law if it isn't being adhered. That you don't like specific laws is a given; we all have that problem. A burglar doesn't like anti burglar law. A squatter doesn't like anti squatting law. A heroin user doesn't like anti heroin law. And Apple doesn't like laws demanding them to use certain connectors for chargers.

I thought the fact that the socket accepts any normal USB cable made them in compliance. I use my Apple charger for micro USB kit all the time

That's a reading of the standard I've not considered. That the wall wart accepts a USB A plug, with a micro USB on the other end.

I don't get why they would specify the micro USB in that case, but they do. I still think the spec was intended to be USB A on one end, and Micro USB on the other. But that's entirely plausible without actually going back and reading it again..

The EU was far more worried about an excess of chargers than they were an excess of cables.

> Micro USB -> {Wireless,Lightning}

Or Micro-USB -> USB-C for that matter. Lightning and USB-C stand on equal ground relative to the Micro-USB "standard-ness" regarding charging, as in, in spite of USB-C being a standard, both represent a departure from the previous port.

I think this debate is quite theoretical though: the goal of the EU regulation was to prevent the 1:1 mapping between phone and charger, which produced enormous waste. Whether it's µUSB, USB-C, or Lightning, all of them separate cables from bricks, and make cables and chargers reusable across whole ranges of past, existing, and future phones. At the end of it, there's no practical need for one port to rule them all, waste is already greatly reduced and convenience is vastly increased, further gains would be quite marginal.

Have you ever known Apple not to drop ports in fear of pissing off customers?

They have never had this many customers to piss off. A billion active iOS devices is pretty serious.

You mean like when they removed the headphone jack? What are those pissed off iOS users going to do? Switch to Android and still have to buy new cables?

Edit: The exclamation point was a typo. I didn’t mean to have the tone that might imply.

> What are those pissed off iOS users going to do?

Firstly, the number of those users is from Apple's perspective anyway insignificant. The fact that they stopped shipping the Lightning->3.5mm dongle indicates this.

Secondly, there are many workarounds. Including buying the dongle, switching to headphones with Lighting connectors or using Bluetooth.

It seems with their current customer base, there is so much variety in what people want that they have more leeway to ignore what any specific group cares about.

I’d guess for instance the number of people pissed off by a change of cable could be balanced by the people happy to use USB-C.

The balance between the two is unknowable beforehand, so I’d imagine Apple managers just not care that much as long as a move makes some sense.

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