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Comment by throwaway2975 | Hacker News Reader

I think we have reached the point where being on the conservative side of US politics means more, a lot more, than just having "different political opinions". Am I so wrong for thinking the conservative side of US politics demonstrates a lack empathy towards the poor, minorities, and women on a regular basis? In comparison to the left?

Edit: My wording is poor, but I'm mostly concerned about those who have the power to pass legislation that affects others. In other words, politicians, not citizens who vote.

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Yes. I spent almost my entire life on the far left, admired and voted for Nader, etc. And being honest, kind of thought the thoughts you're expressing here.

By happenstance, a couple of years ago start spending a lot of time with conservatives. It was kind of shocking to discover, but on average, they're every bit as kind and compassionate as the liberals I know. Maybe a bit more so.

There are outliers in both groups, but being a good person is largely orthogonal to politics.

I don't really expect anyone to take my word for it, but maybe you'll consider the possibility.

Anecdotally, the proportion of my couple-dozen-or-so close friends and family who are conservative has always been about half or a bit less, and they have always been, on average, much more quick to insults and mocking when politics come up. I don't think this makes them bad or uncaring people, and of course some of my liberal friends and family have the same problem, and you would never know that any of these people are anything but kind and compassionate as long as you're talking about things they can relate to and agree with at the moment... But I do think it's essentially impossible for people, on the whole, to consider each other kind and compassionate when either side resorts to that kind of attitude so incredibly freely, which seems like something nearly everybody does if my experience with friends, family, strangers, and anonymous people online is indicative (which it may not be).

FWIW, my liberal friends also often don't lean towards insults and mocking. Rather, shaming and silencing seem more common (at least in recent years).

This is the crux of the issue. Your presumption, based on political ideology, that they lack empathy is immediately dehumanizing them. You are giving yourself permission to not have empathy towards them.

Jesus Christ.

That is exactly the attitude that auto demonizes you when you share conservative viewpoints at work.

You might as well have asked, "Am I so wrong in knowing I'm right and they're sexist, racist assholes?"

> Am I so wrong for thinking the conservative side of US politics demonstrates a lack empathy towards the poor, minorities, and women on a regular basis?

You might be somewhat wrong, yes. It depends on your definition of "empathy".

I'm going to give my personal opinion, not backed by data, and I'm going to paint with a broad brush. But my personal opinion is as valid as throwaway2975's, so here goes.

If you, individually, need help, I think you're slightly more likely to get it face-to-face from a conservative than from a liberal. As I said, no data to prove that point, and note the word "slightly". There are plenty of liberals who are generous in person.

But maybe you are a member of some kind of group, and you want more than a hand that helps you individually. You want help for all 10 million of you, and face-to-face with generous people is going to leave a large number of your group falling between the cracks. You need some kind of organized help. Well, the liberals are far more likely to be in favor of a government program to help you, and to work to bring that about. You could consider that as the liberals having empathy.

But the conservatives don't think so. The conservatives think that government programs have a rather poor track record of actually helping. They burn money by the metric ton (literally - IIRC, a ton of $100 bills is about $100 million), and they help some people, and sometimes they actually hurt some people, but they don't do nearly as much good as you'd expect from the amount of money being spent. The conservatives might say that empathy should move you to do something that actually helps, not just something that makes you feel good for having done something.

Are some of the conservatives using this as a rationale to hide a hard heart? Probably. But some liberals are probably using ineffective action to make themselves feel good about their empathy and caring, too.

> Am I so wrong for thinking the conservative side of US politics demonstrates a lack empathy towards the poor, minorities, and women on a regular basis?

Yes

[well, I guess I got the ban since it won't let me post a response anymore]

Conservative Christian church in my hometown bought an old hotel to house homeless people. And they help them out with counseling, community, etc. The narrative you describe is partisan hyperbole that is not accurate in the least.

Can you provide demonstrative examples for said empathy?

Dave Ramsey. The many Christian ministries that volunteer in prisons or provide assistance to single mothers. As with many groups, the loudest voices are argued to represent the whole, which may not be accurate.

My neighbor and I felled two large pine be trees last year. We chopped it up and have been selling it by the cord. A co-worker of his heats his home by wood stove and cannot afford to buy wood. He comes over and the three of us load up 2 cords at a time into my trailer and help him unload it in his garage. We did this twice last year and once so far this year.

What did that prove? That people have empathy? Or were you exaggerating for effect?

Do you have the ability to pass legislation that effects hundreds, thousands, or millions of other people?

No, but that’s why I vote.

You forgotten to put <sarcasm> or are you trolling? :-)

  are you trolling?

He did create this account immediately before commenting on this thread. So, perhaps.

I'm hoping to combat my bias with new perspective. I would like to be convinced that people who identify as Republican aren't more likely to be racist or misogynistic people.

[flagged]

Funny that you mention empathy. I have a conservative friend who's been trying to convince me to read Paul Bloom's book about why empathy is bad.

Sounds like it's worth a read. What a radical thing to say, that empathy is bad.

Who chooses the special magic groups that are to receive the forced empathy? Who gets the most empathy? There's only so much to go around after all. Who gets to enforce the punishment in consequence for lacking enough of the required empathy quota?

Fuck that social engineering nightmare.

That kind of thinking is exactly the problem - the notion that you get to compel others to think how you want them to, or else they get punished.

Empathy is not a finite resource.

I don't feel as though compelling others to not be hateful is a bad thing. I think exercising hate towards others is worthy of punishment. It's not punishing people for not thinking the way I do, it is punishing people for being hateful towards others.

Empathy is a finite resource. Unless you can demonstrate a way that each person can have infinite amounts of time and energy.

In practical human terms, it's an extremely limited resource. Most people live busy lives, with more than enough to focus on as it is in just their small circle.

This punishment preoccupation sounds pretty hatey to me.

Wrong. You're arguing a point the parent poster didn't make.

The parent poster stated:

> Who chooses the special magic groups that are to receive the forced empathy?

The _giving_ (and thus on the other side, receiving) of empathy is an action, which requires time and energy of human lives. These are finite resources. You telling me what to do with my life directly goes against a plethora of other actions that I could be carrying out. Which may have even been for your benefit, by the way.

Also, your statement:

> I don't feel as though compelling others to not be hateful is a bad thing.

is extraordinarily naive. "Hate" can be "justified", like any other action. Consider a crime carried out by an individual. This individual may be caught and, through a process, be delivered a punishment which may be called "justice." Whatever form that justice takes, it's said to be justified. Whether it's jailing someone, shaming them, or simply "hating" them--there may be a very good reason for that hate.

You state:

> I think exercising hate towards others is worthy of punishment.

> It's not punishing people for not thinking the way I do, it is punishing people for being hateful towards others.

This is entirely absurd. Tell that to anyone who has ever been wronged by an abuser, a deceiver, a warmonger.

By your actions, you would seek to let such malevolent individuals and groups profit at the expense of others, who would even simply "hate" them--much less begin to take corrective action to thwart them.

You seriously need to reexamine your outlook.

So righteous, yet using a throwaway.

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