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Comment by chooseaname | Hacker News Reader

The terrorists are winning by just sitting back watching us do it all to ourselves.

The terrorist goal was never to have this happen. Terrorist(as long as we're thinking of Osama Bin Laden for example, and not say IRA) goal was to get the people in western countries to think why they are being attacked, look into it, and realize that it's happening because of attrocities commited by their own governments in middle East. Osama Bin Laden has himself admitted that the attacks on America have failed to achieve those goals, because Americans have collectively refused to ask "why" they were being attacked - it was sold as brown people hating freedom , with no deeper context to the whole issue.

I think you see the wrong receiver for the 'Osama' terrorist messages:

The message was not intended for the general western john doe. Instead, it was a message for the average unhappy muslim. The message for them was:

* The west is damaging the muslim vision of the world

* We can beat them

* So join our cause

In some more detail: The whole world is being amerified: Culturally by Hollywood, economically by the WTO and comparable organizations, military by the American army, covert actions by CIA, by the NATO, politically .

Until recently, muslim-extremist terrorism did not happen in the western world. The planes, however, hit the most powerful western country, and hit the power centers of economy (WTC), military (PENTAGON), and politics (The white house, averted). Even if the actual damage was fairly minimal for terrorism standards, the propaganda value was enormous.

Join our cause was a way to tapping into forgotten muslim community. Before 9-11, muslim immigrants in non-muslim european countries were background noise. The attacks gave a way to channel, unify and organize these people. Our own news organisations told them where they could find interesting terrorism groups like ISIS. I remember how the Brussels-attackers learned Islam from a 'for dummies' book, and didnt know much of the basics.

Nobody around Osama gave any care about what a non-muslim would think. Maybe some of them hoped we would cower, but that's about it. I don't think any of them suspected we might destabilize our own power and values, and would help and legitimize their organisations in the process. We gave them far more than they could hope for.

> it's happening because of attrocities commited by their own governments in middle East

This narrative again. Specifically which atrocities are you talking about? And where are all the Japanese, German, and Vietnamese terrorists attacking in revenge for the atrocities of WWII and Vietnam?

Of course, that narrative is a farce. But it plays on "look at how the western world is evil" and other forms of "white guilt".

No wonder Stockholm Syndrome is a western thing.

Sadists don't need a reason, they just need a "reasoning"

Obvious disclaimer that I don't agree with their logic, but that part does bear some legitimacy.

For example, read about the various Lebanese wars, and take note of the Sabra and Shatile and Qana massacres. You also have to understand that Since the US supplies almost all the arms to the IDF, the two are synonymous in their eyes.

>>Specifically which atrocities are you talking about?

I don't want you to be under an impression that I agree with this reasoning - I do not. I'm just saying that you getting patted down by TSA or EU implementing restrictions on internet speech was never the terrorist goal, not even according to themselves.

In the Islamist POV the war is still ongoing.

>get the people in western countries to think why they are being attacked, look into it, and realize that it's happening because of attrocities commited by their own governments in middle East

I get that you're paraphrasing here but that seems incredibly naive for someone who was fairly educated on foreign affairs

edit: talking about Osama being naive not GP

There is also some related supporting information lectures given by Profressor Robert Pape.

He dives into the evidence based data supporting the actions of terrorists which is in complete contradiction to popular narratives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4HnIyClHEM

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