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Comment by UpshotKnothole | Hacker News Reader

Even if Facebook actually wanted to change, intended to change and put time, money, and talent to the task this would still be a serious uphill climb. The idea that anyone could rehabilitate their image when they have no such commitment is laughable. Does anyone seriously think what this really isn’t just crisis mangement? Every quarter that FB can stave off inevitable backlash and regulation is money in their pocket, even if it’s only a decaying orbit. Like the tobacco industry in its day, delay delay delay because thst delay is profitable. If you can’t make your product “healthy” without throwing out your product, this is how you act.

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Facebook is the cigarette of our generation

It's already causing a cancer of the mind.

smoking:respiratory system :: social media:mental health

All due respect, smoke causes cancer, images don't cause mental health problems.

If cigarettes weren't addictive they'd still be REALLY bad for you.

The problem with Facebook (or current Social Media) is that it IS addictive, and therefore bad, if it wasn't addictive it wouldn't necessarily be bad for you.

I disagree. I think there are a large number of mental health problems that are directly attributable to images you see and words you read -most notably depression, but I think anorexia is the case study here. I don't think that the people who've contracted it through social media weren't already at risk, but the availability of models and pro-ana groups that encourage and enable such behavior has profound effect.

Talk to child exploitation workers who have nervous breakdowns over the images they see.

Images do cause mental health issues.

That’s completely true, I wasn’t clear in my first post, I meant images alone do not necessarily cause harm, whereas a cigarette does necessarily cause harm.

You’re completely right that there are images which can cause harm

> images don't cause mental health problems

This is categorically false.

The health problems caused by smoking can be easily visualized as a pair of black lungs. Social media is harmful in a more invisible way.

Here is just one article. Have a google, there are plenty.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/19/popular-soci...

There's no healthy way to use cigarettes, plenty of people manage to use Facebook without freaking out about it.

The Facebook == cigarettes claim is disingenuous.

Is your statement correct?

People can smoke for decades without any major consequence.

What is the long term effect of Facebook on individuals and society?

what is healthy about sharing your private data with a 3rd party you cannot trust with anything? If anything thats irresponsible.

You can't use Facebook without being damaged by Facebook.

It's like lead poisoning. There's no safe level. If you're on Facebook you're on Facebook, and that alone is a problem for a variety of reasons, privacy being just one.

This just isn't true.

Plenty of people (millions, maybe billions) use Facebook without being damaged by it.

One example, of many: Cambridge Analytica scraped information on these people. Are you sure they weren't damaged by that?

Millions of people smoke and while they don't drop dead immediately, they are damaged by it. Sometimes damage takes a long time to accumulate.

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14851057

Really? Besides "feeling good" (I assume?), I would be hard pressed to think of a single beneficial thing about cigarette. Facebook certainly has more productive uses than just making you feel good... the question is whether they're worth the downsides.

What benefit does Facebook provide that no other service can? When I break down the specific features of the FB platform, I'd be hard pressed to think of a single beneficial thing about FB.

Network effect. Lots of people still use it.

> Network effect. Lots of people still use it.

Cigarettes are legal pretty much everywhere and easily found at any corner store.

Network effect.

That's not the definition of network effect

The real network effect is all the chit-chat while smoking and making connections when somebody asks for a some/fire.

Its a contact list. And it doesn't go out of date in the same way that phone numbers or email addresses can.

Lots of people stop using Facebook in exactly the same way that they stop using old e-mail providers.

> a single beneficial thing about cigarette

It calms the nerves. (I'm not a smoker.)

The smokers in my life all would go to the mat for how valuable smoking supposedly is to their lives; one person even goes so far as to think people who aren't constantly using nicotine are fundamentally misunderstanding what it means to be human. I take it you are not a smoker?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Uses

"Enhancing performance: Nicotine is frequently used for its performance-enhancing effects on cognition, alertness, and focus.[38] A meta-analysis of 41 double-blind, placebo-controlled studies concluded that nicotine or smoking had significant positive effects on aspects of fine motor abilities, alerting and orienting attention, and episodic and working memory.[39] A 2015 review noted that stimulation of the α4β2 nicotinic receptor is responsible for certain improvements in attentional performance;[40] ..."

Not that this is how most people use it (esp. because those who do smoke are likely not allowed to do so inside an office building, meaning they couldn't be e.g. programming at their multi-monitor desk while doing it; seems the half-life of nicotine in the body is 1-2 hours, so perhaps it could be net-beneficial to go outside briefly); nor that it couldn't be done via skin patches or other delivery mechanisms.

Very interesting - the few times I've had a cigarette, I've definitely noticed a sense of clarity in thinking and alertness. For non-smokers, showers seem to be one of the rare times where one is left alone with ones thoughts to explore, while cigarette smokers may experience this with every smoking break.

Yes, I’ve never smoked cigarettes but I’ve always envied the way smokers could always just take a few minutes to gather their thoughts whenever they wanted. And smoking as a social activity cuts out all class and other boundaries.

This guy has it.

I used to vape around the equivalent of a pack a day. It helped me with my adhd.

I ended up stopping when I learned that getting up and going to vape in the bathroom constantly was becoming an even greater distraction than my own mind.

Yeah, I've used gum and patches at times, for just this reason.

> I would be hard pressed to think of a single beneficial thing about cigarette. Facebook certainly has more productive uses than just making you feel good...

When I ask young people why they smoke, the most popular answer is: "I wouldn't have met so many people, if I didn't". When I ask them why they are still on Facebook, I get the same answer.

I have noticed the smokers always seem to make more connections at work than me, even though I consider myself more extroverted than some of my smoking colleagues.

Nicotine temporarily lowers the effects of some forms of anxiety. Socialising can be scary for people.

When I was a smoker I found that the smoke pit was the only area in the company where senior leadership and new, low-level hires would openly converse without the typical formalities. This often lead to people being pulled into projects they wouldn't typically have access to.

For me, I often received extremely valuable input from folks in other departments for the projects I was working on -- typically people in production had the most innovative ideas compared to that department's leadership.

Weight loss. I gained 15 kg within two years after quitting. With no change in physical activity. I did eat more, of course. Because tobacco suppresses hunger. But eventually I learned to love exercise.

Plenty of good things about nicotine : - weight management (appetite suppressant) [1] - clarifies certain kinds of decision making - heightens alertness - improves attention for those with schizophrenia [2]

Smoking cigarettes on the other hand is... less than optimal.

[1] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/brain-p... [2] http://schizophrenia.com/nicotine.benefits.htm

I smoked for about 1 year in my life between mid-junior, mid-senior high school. I haven't touched them since then (it's been like 5 years). Smoking was the single most social thing I've ever done. I REALLY do not understand how it works, it might be some primate brain mumbo-jumbo but cigarettes are somehow very good social lubricants like alcohol, maybe even better than alcohol depending on culture. This is not US. When I moved to US (the Bay Area) I saw that literally nobody smokes here so I never had the desire to smoke. Luckily, stopping smoking was extremely easy for me: one day I just stopped smoking and never once thought about it.

If you smoke for years, there is no doubt it'll cause physical dependence, it's documented with dozens of peer reviewed research. But until that dependence is developed, smoking is nothing but a social activity (and tiny bit of physical pleasure). I gained more friends this way than any other thing I ever tried socializing (and I'm pretty ok socially)

DISCLAIMER: This comment does not encourage smoking, smoking is a nasty, disgusting and infinitely dangerous activity. You smell like street dog all the time and you cough like you have lung cancer. There are better ways of finding sexual mates or friends.

The world's rapidly improving if that's true.

Which generation are you? I thought it was the nicotine vape jobbies that form the cigarettes of our generation

The internet generation, or generation X (the one right before millennials).

No, it's our religion, our Opium for the people.

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