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Comment by manigandham | Hacker News Reader

Absolutely not the case. The Google machine includes:

Google Analytics, Adwords/Adsense, Doubleclick network, Android and store, Chrome Browser, Chrome OS, Maps/Streetview, Gmail, G-Suite, Youtube, Google Play, Google Fiber, Google Fi, Public DNS, all the various websites with 1st party cookies, connections to Salesforce CRM, and the recently announced Mastercard purchase data.

Facebook and Amazon are nowhere close this level of exposure from hardware devices to internet protocols to the biggest websites around, and anyone with experience in adtech will tell you the same thing. Also adblockers can trivially block any network request or DOM component on a page, including Facebook and Amazon ads.

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According to the privacy page for Public DNS, it sounds like that data is not used for ads

https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy

>We don't correlate or combine information from our temporary or permanent logs with any personal information that you have provided Google for other services.

It doesnt need to be used specifically for ads, it's still aggregated data that helps monitor network traffic.

For now, if they ever get to the point where it's used in the default DNS in most home modems and consumer devices then I'd expect that to change.

Edit - s/root/default

I think you mean default DNS resolver, not root DNS. The DNS root servers are something completely different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_name_server

They still get aggregate data that can be valuable. All the site visits that don't go through google search will still trigger a DNS lookup. Including geolocation.

All of that data is still just based on Google trying to “infer” interests which is not as accurate as people telling them about themselves. For instance, Facebook knows your relationship status as soon as it changes because most people tell them. Facebook knows where people like to eat because people check in. They know which events you are going to that are advertised on FB because you tell them “that you are interested”.

Do you know how many people check in every single time they work out?

People don’t use Google Maps when they know where they are going, but they will check in.

As far as adblockers blocking contents “in the DOM”, that doesn’t help if you’re using the FB app - one of the most popular apps in the store and most people aren’t going to install network based ad blockers.

Only geeks use Google’s DNS. Most people use whatever DNS the DHCP settings on thier router tell them. If you are using cellular data can you even change your DNS?

What's Google known for? Search.

This means people tell it exactly what they want. Who cares what your relationship status is when I can see you type in "wedding ring" into a search box? Who cares where you like to eat in the past when you searched for "chinese food" on maps, and potentially even clicked on an ad for a restaurant?

This is called "intent" and it's incredibly powerful because you can advertise for exactly what a person is actually looking for at that moment. Inference (like Facebook likes and profile details) will never be as good for real-time targeting.

Why users will stick to Google forever for those queries? they can search those on shopping/review apps.

Because Google has better results? What app has managed to take any serious amount of search queries from Google?

It’s not about taking general search from Google. It’s about picking off high value search.

Your random searches are not that valuable from a monetization standpoint. Searches that lead people to buy things are. Those searches are easy to pick off on a category by category basis. I had no idea that Google actually took up most of the screen on mobile with ads for products for sell until this thread. I’ve had Ad blocking on for just that long.

So easy that it still hasn't been done yet? What's everyone waiting for then with 10s of billions in profit available?

In fact it's the opposite happening with Google now pushing into searches for flights and hotels with far better UX, even though those verticals were dominated by other vendors.

Zillow, Amazon, Nolo, Priceline, Indeed, ZipRecruiter, LinkedIn, vsrious car sites, etc.

You are being naive here, the edge is data size, what made Amazon stuck out is they have shopping specific data, that's what matters, so too will those specific apps.

I've been in adtech for 10+ years so I'll take my experience and connections over your anonymous comments.

Nobody cares about some app that gets 0.001% of the usage and probably doesn't even have any strong identity link. "Shopping data" isn't magical nor is it of interest to every advertiser. Purchase data is also already processed by specific companies with their own properties or in aggregate by many ad networks. And, in case you missed my first comment, Google recently closed a deal to get purchase data directly from Mastercard which is far more than any single retailer could provide.

If you actually have an example of a specific app that is delivering much greater ad performance then perhaps you should share it.

Google organizes the world's information. Facebook organizes the world's delusions.

“which is not as accurate as people telling them about themselves.”

I’d argue Google’s data is 100x more accurate of who I am as a person than the data I provide FB. As a theoretical example, based on my search history, Google knows I have hemorrhoids, am paranoid about pancreatic cancer, looking for a SMS API provider, am a borderline gambler (because i check betting odds every day), and pondering the benefits of a divorce.

FB on the other hand has all the “shallow” information. It knows I like Game of Thrones, NBA basketball and paintball. It knows I like to eat ramen. It doesnt know all the other stuff because I dont tell my friends I have hemorrhoids. I dont tell my friends I might be getting a divorce.

Does FB know the needs/wants/fears of me as a person compared to google? I think not.

As far as divorce....

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/14/facebook-relations...

Facebook also has Messenger, which to my knowledge and from my experience is far more prominent than Google Hangouts for "private" digital communication. Presumably they mine those conversations for ads as well.

I'm not sure how important it is but I think it's also important to note that even if people are telling Facebook lots of things about themselves that there is no guarantee that info is 100% accurate.

Fair, but on the whole I'd be more willing to bet based on a willfull Facebook action than infer from an indirect Google Search action.

Data mining is incredibly insightful in aggregate, but my searching for "Cheetos" is a difficult path to (a) my being hungry for snacks, (b) my wanting to see the mascot, (c) seeing if they have a new flavor, etc. etc.

>>> Facebook knows where people like to eat because people check in.

Google knows where you eat because when you leave the restaurant it offers you to review it for google map.

Also, if you own Android, no need for Google maps. They are already tracking your mobile location. Scanning WiFi in the background. They know you are having dinner at some hotel because WiFi found its network while scanning. It doesn't matter if your WiFi is off.

You can switch background scanning off in Android. If Google respects that setting is another question altogether though.

Reviewing for Google map doesn’t give you the same social media cred of “look how exciting my life is and how great my relationship is!” that checking in on FB gives you. Besides it’s a lot more work.

The point was that google already knows where you ate. You don't have to tell it, it tells you.

They know the vicinty. If there are a lot of restaurants or other businesses, they don’t know exactly which business I was at. If I have an iPhone. They don’t even know that unless it was some place I needed directions to.

you'll be surprised at how many people use google maps on iphone. i would even be surprised if most ios users use google maps.

There is a huge difference. Google tracks location data on Android users all of the time. Google can only get location data on iOS users if they are actively using Google Maps. You don’t need a maps app if you know where you are going.

You also don’t have to sign in to Google Maps or connect it with “you” on iPhone. It’s sandboxed unless you opt in to allowing it to use your location all the time.

If people are checking in then they are also online, and if you're online then your location is available. This is not hard to do.

On iOS, your location isn’t available to Google though. iOS has three per app settings for location permissions for apps - never, while using, and always. Google can only get location data if you are actively using Google Maps.

You're stuck on Google Maps and checkins but that is not the only thing that people use, nor is GPS necessary. Anyone sitting down at a restaurant and using the internet on their device via any app or website will shed location details that Google and other networks can pickup.

How does Google pick up location data on an iOS device using Safari browsing Facebook? Can a site with Google analytics gather the logged in Google account name? The upcoming iOS 12 version of Safari is going to make it even harder to do browser fingerprinting.

Networks have locations. Cell towers, wifi hotspots, corporate routers, etc. Not hard to get a location as long as there is network traffic.

Google analytics does know the same user across sites and devices but this is of course not exposed to the site, it's used by Google for ad targeting.

Browser fingerprinting is not necessary because people log in (to apps and sites) and will never be possible to fully reduce unless Apple can somehow make identical computer chips down to the atom.

Apple's cookie war also only helps Facebook and Google who maintain active 1st party cookies with every user, and meanwhile hurts all the independent networks and publishers who have to get people to keep logging in. This is why it helps to actually have some adtech expertise and industry cooperation instead of creating silly browser rules and turning Safari into the new IE.

Networks have locations. Cell towers, wifi hotspots, corporate routers, etc. Not hard to get a location as long as there is network traffic.

How does that help unless they are sharing the data with Google?

If you haven’t noticed, Apple isn’t trying to help the adtech industry. Apple has a built in framework that allows third parties to submit ad blocking rules into Safari and (some) embedded webviews.

I didn’t know how bad Google’s search results were with most of the page taken over by shopping results on mobile until I started loading results with content blocking turned off to post on this topic.

Most of us are much more than we say.

google has your location they don't need you to checkin

Not if I’m on an iPhone. They know the vicinity I’m in but they don’t know exactly which store I’m at if it is an area with a lot of stores nor do they know that I’m with my friends. I probably added them to the check in and/or tagged them in a picture.

You do know that Apple only tries to stop things like this for everyone else than themselves, right? I wouldn't trust them any more than Google. At least you can use an android phone without Google apps if you want to. Good luck with using an iPhone without sending your data to Apple or trying to remove all Apple's stuff (step one: iOS).

Unless Apple is lying and third party research says they aren’t, they only store location data locally on the device and have an entire framework where they anonymize location data sent back for improving their service - differential privacy.

For the really paranoid, you can completely turn off most sharing with Apple, disable iCloud backups and backup to your PC with iTunes.

Google Fiber, Google Fi, these data hardly makes any sense, there are around x MM scale.

G-Suite sure isn't used for ads, otherwise the enterprise customers will be mad.

> Facebook and Amazon are nowhere close this level of exposure from hardware devices to internet protocols to the biggest websites around

FB might be, not for Amazon.

Hardware wise, Amazon has kindle (not so useful) Fire, and Alexa powered smart home devices.

Amazon own siganificant share of Internet through AWS.

Amazon owns big wesites as well.

An ad blocker also removes the ads from Google search though.

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