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Comment by Odenwaelder | Hacker News Reader

I struggle with the question whether to have children or not. I'm surrounded by new fathers who struggle with their children, whose wives have turned from attractive women into unattractive moms. I read witty comments all the time suggesting how much of a burden kids are.

This struggle burns me out.

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As another viewpoint from the other responders here; we decided not to have kids and no regrets 20 years in, quite the opposite. Luckily where we are from it does not have as much stigma as in other places as most our friends do not have kids.

I think it is important to make up your mind (with your current significant other; another relation might swing your opinion, it happens a lot); I know many people where one of the two wanted kids (usually the woman but in some cases the man) and that ended up badly after getting kids; sometimes a long time after, but when you get older you notice this 1/3rd divorce thing is real and with those couples the fights (I sat on the embarrassing end of dinners at friends...) ends with something like ‘but you took away my youth’.

Too many people still have a baby to save the relationship; maybe it works for some, but it didn’t for the people I know anyway.

As for a burden; I know people get a lot of satisfaction from kids. If I had them I would be full in as I do with everything. Probably so would you. It is more important to think of your future plans and ambitions maybe; my wife and myself are people with a lot of plans, always had those and we wanted to execute them. I do not believe in having kids and then having them raised by the nanny and boarding school. Children simply did not fit; if we would have had ‘an accident’, we always said we would have kept her/him and would’ve had a second one and change our planning to ‘settle down’. Accidents did not happen and we were free to follow our planning and not ‘settle down’.

I have 8 year old triplets. It's tough work, but very rewarding.

On the attractiveness front, I have a still very attractive wife that takes care of herself. I think a lot of your worries are in the selection of a partner. And of course, you must keep up your end of the bargain, so lead by example, stay fit. It's a partnership, after all.

At the time I met my wife, I was dating quite a bit and had many options, but she just clicked with me immediately. She was gorgeous, and a genuinely-compassionate person. We don't post lovey #YOLO posts to each other on Instagram. We argue a lot, that's fine, we work through it. We stay committed.

I guess my point here is that nothing comes easy. It takes nurturing and humility.

Sometimes, when I'm alone and introspecting and my thoughts venture a little dark, I ask myself if I could turn back time would I do it again, or would I stay a swinging bachelor? And so far, my answer has always been "Hell yes, I would do it again".

As a father of 6 month old twins and two toddlers it's nice to see there's light at the end of the tunnel :)

Thank you for your reply. If I may ask, did your wife change mentally after having kids? I know several men whose wifes have been outgoing and universally interested, while after having kids, they are only interested in their kids, much less anything else.

She did change. She's a bit more moody and stressed now. She is a stay-at-home mom, so that is most of her life, but I encourage her to grow and do others things, be it go into town, do volunteer work, or take some classes. Whatever.

I want her to be the best person she can be, and that will involve more compromise on my part: hosting a single dad's night with the kids, entertaining the kids more, cooking dinner, washing the dishes. Had a long day at work and the dishes need to be done? Beat her to it and do them. It'll pay dividends.

You are/will be with a human being with flaws and complex emotions. Try to be patient, vulnerable, and understanding. And DEAR GOD ALMIGHTY, stay faithful.

That said, I'm a crappy husband. I'm often moody myself, stressed, a bit of a dick. I try not to beat myself up too bad anymore. I treat everyday like that Groundhog's Day movie. I just try to be better the next day and make my apologies when I need to.

Find the beauty in all the flaws and frailty of humans. Good luck.

Honestly, I think your mindset needs to change. Namely the mindset that having 'burdens' is bad. A burden is a responsibility that's unwanted. Credit card debt is a burden, because you are responsible to pay and you don't want it. Children are certainly a responsibility, but whether they're a burden depends on whether or not you want them. If you don't want them, then of course they're a burden. If you do want them, they are a responsibility, and wanted responsibilities are not burdens.

The opposite of an unwanted responsibility (a burden) is a wanted responsibility. Another word for wanted responsibility is investment. For example, the CEO of a startup has a wanted responsibility to make their company succeed. This is an investment that could pay off big time if they put in the work now.

Thus, whether children are a burden or investment is really up to your mindset.

My wife is gorgeous but I gotta say - once you have kids, there is a very good chance you are in for a HUGE 'demotion' in terms of the attention you can expect to give and receive. There are far too many times I literally can't remember the last time my wife and I had a fun conversation not involving kids, school, housework. The impact on your married relationship will be non trivial. There are (hopefully) great benefits from working through all those kid-issues as a team.

I don't regret having kids, but this really caught me by surprise, and not until several years after our first was born did it really sink in how our relationship had changed and how long that phase lasts. (well beyond the infant/toddler years)

Think your life as a sine and happiness and sadness is the high and low. Having children multiples the amplitude. You will feel happier you ever thought by simply watching them. You will be able to cry on stupid endoftheworld movies because kids. You will walk out of your house at 2 am because otherwise you would hurt those little fkers. You won't sleep well for years. You will be able to squat one more series if you imagine you're saving them with that. To summarize you will get more _life_ out of having kids with all the highs and lows that life naturally contains.

This is a boost I would never miss out.

It can definitely be a challenge. My wife and I waited a long time (10 years) before having a kid. There have been a number of unexpected medical things that have complicated the past ~4 years. I love my son a lot, but I also would have been happy to be just a husband. I think you need to decide what's important to you and whether a child makes that better or worse. Having kids to meet some kind of social norm or expectation is definitely not a good plan (although I'm sure it can work out ok in some situations).

Kudos to you for being forthright enough to say this. It helps those considering children to be able to speak to those who in retrospect might have stayed non-parents. The problem is finding such people to talk with b/c the narrative in our present society (at least in the US) is that such an admission is somehow wrong or improper.

I don't know what to tell you. I love my kids, and i would absolutely make the same decision over again, but a lot of what you said rings true. Kids are a burden. Of course they are. They're not self sufficient. You literally have to carry them around for the first 2 years. I found your unattractive moms comment a bit shallow, but let's talk about it. Everyone ages, looks don't last forever regardless of kids. The more crucial point is, having kids will change your relationship with your partner. You'll no longer be the centre of her world. It's not an easy transition to make, and it leads to break ups. Your sex life will suffer. So will your social life, sleep, and hobbies. But once you look your first born child in the face those things don't seem that important anymore.

Meh, it is not as hard as it seems. Just get yourself 2 kids in quick succession. Adding second one will be both easier than getting first and it will highlight how silly it was to feel that it is difficult when it was just one. Also they will play with each other while you watch TV and drink beer.

Then, once you feel comfortable with two, add a third.

Because, what the hell!

1) Get a pet, preferably a dog. See if you can handle the responsibility. Be a good dog owner, train your dog well. If you cannot do a dog, then a child is out of the question.

2) I regret not starting to have kids earlier, as I wish I had more.

3) What kids want most is your time, not STUFF. So yes your free time goes away, but it does come back as they get older.

4) Kids are great fun.

5) Yes your wife will change, but so will you.

I don't think anyone can definitively say whether having kids will make your life overall better or worse though we are culturally programmed to think it's always positive but the reality is not always that way. Though there will always be a bit of a what if question in my mind, I don't regret not having kids but if it were a matter of regret I would rather regret not having them than regret having them.

If you aren't sure if you want kids or not and your partner is the same, you probably shouldn't have them. A lot of people get intense pressure from their family to have kids so it can be a very difficult decision to make.

I'm at 11 kids now.

The struggle and burden is real, though most people wrongly assume that it is a linear function of the number of kids. It isn't so bad. The first one upturns your life. The second and third are much less trouble. After that, the only thing you notice is when you outgrow a vehicle. I'm at a 15-passenger van now, which is hard to outgrow before the oldest kids learn to drive.

Once you have a couple kids, you might as well have a dozen.

By "unattractive moms" do you refer to flabby bellies? Yeah, that happens... but then again, to some extent it happens anyway, and we all end up looking awful in the end. If you meant presentation (makeup, hair style, high heels...) then I don't know what to say because I purposely picked a woman with a plain all-natural style.

> Once you have a couple kids, you might as well have a dozen.

You make completele sense. But you didn't; at one time.

It took a lot of convincing before we had our first one. I was terrified and completely worried about everything all the time.

The second also took some convincing. But after he came; I really felt like I could handle anything. After a few months of both; I no longer had these worries about adding more kids. I don't think there's much difference between 2+ and 20.

11 kids, wow! By "unattractive moms" I mean women that have nothing in their mind but their kids, while they used to be smart and universally interested before becoming a mom. I find this transition sad.

The answer sounds obvious to me, don't bother. The planet seems to be overpopulated and we are using up resources far faster than the earth can replenish the, is it really going to be a great future for kids to be born into?

Raising children is like investing heavily in a 401k or other savings vehicle. The cost is VERY high! But the payoff can be much higher.

Only have kids if your willing to start and finish a 20 year project.... if successful... otherwise it’s a 30 or 40 year project

reddit.com/r/childfree

To be fair that is a bit of a bitchfest. Some comments are reasonable, some are a bit over the top.

Don't feel bad about struggling with the question. It's only with the recent advent of birth control that it's become a decision we have to make. Children used to just happen.

If one's worried about an attractive wife turning into an unattractive mom; then yeah, it's probably not right for them.

Here's to hoping we all age perfectly!

I am fairly sure that 99% of relationships are exactly this.

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