Your updated statement also says "Dgraph is available under an Apache v2.0 based liberal license", which I think is unfairly using the Apache 2.0 name without clarifying that your license in fact is not open source. The language is still dishonest.
Your updated statement also says "Dgraph is available under an Apache v2.0 based liberal license", which I think is unfairly using the Apache 2.0 name without clarifying that your license in fact is not open source. The language is still dishonest.
If we had changed the Apache license, we would not have referred to it by that name. But given we have not changed the Apache terms, it seems to us more confusing to arbitrarily refer to those terms by a different name.
My take is that Apache + Commons Clause is more liberal than AGPL, something I can expand on in my blog post -- that's clear from our users, who actually appreciated the switch from AGPL to the current license.
Yes, you have.
> We have added an additional term (Commons Clause) and clearly stated that we are applying the two together.
Adding the Commons Clause changes the terms of the Apache license quite substantially, which is obviously the reason you added it.
https://github.com/dgraph-io/dgraph/issues/2416#issuecomment...
This stuff really sours me on the otherwise fairly reasonable license and its users.
>our responsibility is to choose our license terms and clearly communicate them to those who want to use the software
You are not doing this. Your website reads "Dgraph is available under an Apache v2.0 based liberal license", which is technically true but also very dishonest. Your software does not use the Apache 2.0 license, and users of it should not expect to enjoy the freedoms granted to them by the Apache 2.0 license.
>We have not changed the Apache license terms
This is not true. The Apache license explicitly grants freedoms which the following
>We have added an additional term
changes. Don't wrangle words into passable lies, you're not talking to idiots. Your wording is misleading and dishonest, which are two qualities you should be trying very hard not to associate with your brand. So far you're not doing well. No one is questioning your right to license the software as you wish. But you are not proud of your choice and are using slimy and dishonest language on your marketing material to hide your shame and trick potential users.
A separate issue is the subjective one, which is whether or not the commons clause is liberal. I think you are being dishonest here. There are widely accepted definitions for "liberal" among the open source community. The main differentiating factor of a liberal license is that it's not viral. Most people informed on this subject can then neatly and objectively file licenses into liberal and restrictive categories, with licenses like MIT, BSD, and Apache in the liberal camp, and the GPL family of licenses in the restrictive camp. However, the distinction has always been subjective, and nothing like the OSD exists. Additionally, the distinction is only ever applied in the comparison of open source licenses, of which yours is not a member. The realm of proprietary licenses masquarading as open source licenses is unexplored territory, and I'm drawing a line: no matter how restrictive a license like AGPL is, a license which is not even open source in the first place is far from liberal.
The third issue is whether or not using the Commons Clause is the right thing for Dgraph to do. In my opinion, it's a slap in the face to everyone who ever used or especially to anyone who ever contributed to Dgraph. In fact, as I was researching dgraph a bit more to see how you approached this issue, it also occurs to me that I can't find any discussion where existing Dgraph contributors were consulted on the matter of relicensing their work, which seems to me that your license change was not only distasteful and harmful to your project, but also illegal. Were all of the contributors consulted and their permission obtained to change the license? I'll certainly be consulting them if not.
They degrade on the 'de facto' definition of OS by saying that others may not sell it.
That's it.
Comments like yours are why I don't interact with open source at all.
>The Commons Clause nullifies pretty much any privledge granted by the original license, further rendering it useless. For example, the permission to make and publish changes to the work, or reuse the code elsewhere. Is the Commons Clause viral? If I take a small function from RedisLabs and incorporate it into my project, do my users have to pay RedisLabs to support my project? If RedisLabs decides not to, is my project now illegal to support at all? What if I want to fork the software, does my fork inherit the clause and do the same problems apply? This doesn't sound anything like the "commons" to me. Pretty much all of the rights afforded to users of open source are rendered null and void, and the mention of an open source license in the licensing terms of such software is laughable.
Dgraph was interesting to me until they said they wanted to take a vig for me sharing knowledge and practical advice about the software (because that's what consulting, an activity expressly precluded in the dishonestly-named Commons Clause, is). That? That can go straight to hell.
Being a taker of open source (because you certainly "interact with open source") is your right but has absolutely nothing to do with those of us actually expecting those draping themselves in the banner of open source to practice open source principles and to run an open source project as an open source project. That exists between your ears and your ears alone.
Well, given that there are like 10 different criteria to meet it very obviously is not black and white.
You can view dgraph's source. You can modify and contribute to it. You can fork it, change it, etc. You just can't make it your own product that you sell.
It is open source in many, many ways, and probably the general, colloquial way. Whining endlessly because they don't want other people to sell it, and to maintain some semblance of ownership, is what's ridiculous.
You can not sell the code, or services that are directly based on the code.
Sounds pretty open and reasonable.
But we'll just have to disagree I think.
Wait, did they not have a CLA?
You can use it freely for open source and commercial applications with one, single, easy-to-understand catch:
You can't sell it or provide it as a paid service.
Is it open source? No.
Can I and you and almost everyone except Google Gloud, Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure use it exactly as if it is open source? Yes.
Is it less hassle than the AGPL? IMO, clearly yes.
No, definitely not. I elaborated on why "liberal" is inappropriate here in a different comment:
>There are widely accepted definitions for "liberal" among the open source community. The main differentiating factor of a liberal license is that it's not viral. Most people informed on this subject can then neatly and objectively file licenses into liberal and restrictive categories, with licenses like MIT, BSD, and Apache in the liberal camp, and the GPL family of licenses in the restrictive camp. However, the distinction has always been subjective, and nothing like the OSD exists. Additionally, the distinction is only ever applied in the comparison of open source licenses, of which yours is not a member. The realm of proprietary licenses masquarading as open source licenses is unexplored territory, and I'm drawing a line: no matter how restrictive a license like AGPL is, a license which is not even open source in the first place is far from liberal.
I also wrote here about how this affects people like you and I:
> You can't sell it or provide it as a paid service.
The limitation in the license text is not that narrow; restricting the right to sell any product or service whose value derives “substantially” from the Commons Clause software. In legal context, “substantially” generally is a rough synonym of “nontrivially”.
You seem to be suggesting that he license intended to only restrict sales of software/services which have no substantial source of value besides the upstream software, but that's not how it's actually written.
As far as I understand the license clearly permits me to:
-Use the licensed software internally.
-Modify the licensed software.
-Share my modifications.
-Write software that connects direcly to the licensed software, with no restrrictions on my software (unlike AGPL)
-From this it follows that I can license my software that uses the licensed software any way I want.
-I'm not sure if I will be allowed to bundle the licensed software with my software,
-But it should be allowed to say that the user as to install the licensed software and run it for my software to work.
-Sharing the licensed software in a bundle (e.g. Linux distro) seems to be OK as long as I don't charge for it. This probably will need to be sorted out for Redhat etc.
Please correct me if any of the above is incorrect. I might have misunderstood it but this was my best understanding.
To me it seems more correct to say:
but you don't get all the benefits you'd have from it being open source.
Again though:
- while I see where this is coming from
- and it won't hurt me directly as far as I understand
- I still have a sketchy feeling about what this will lead to in the future
Yes it is. You can read the source code.
It's not FOSS, or Open Source per the OSI definition.
You can read the source of Oracle Java as well. Doesn't make it open source.
Open source has a defined meaning.
Common Clause even points out in their FAQ that it makes the software not open source.