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I'm not sure what losing your money to the obvious scam that is crypto "investing" has to do with professionals attempting to underwrite the public security issuance of one of the most profitable business ventures in modern history, but thanks for sharing.

It's interesting to consider the similarities, isn't it? Exponential growth is a powerful incentive, and it causes everyone universally to overlook the downsides of a bet. Yet most of us do.

There literally are no similarities between what you described and the original topic.

There was no exponential growth or betting or downsides here. The Jr. bankers billed a metric-ton of hours and made their firms truckloads in fees. They're probably just disappointed all those late nights were essentially for nothing.

Saudi Aramco is still a 1.5 trillion dollar company. Just not a publicly listed one. A public listing wouldn't change the value of the company. This is not some hot high-growth tech IPO that retail investors would clamor over.

> those late nights were essentially for nothing

Except they weren't. If a junior banker was placed on the Aramco deal team, that tells you they're well regarded. You don't put your C team on the Aramco deal. Furthermore, a client of this calibre brings together powerful people from across the firm and industry. The juniors will have had a chance to network with them. That's huge. (Not to mention, everyone at these firms gets paid salary, benefits and bonuses.)

I'm not harping on this to be mean. Downside management matters. That seems to have gone out the door around cryptocurrencies. These bankers made something if the deal failed and a lot more if it went through. Cryptocurrency investors had no such levers with which to manage downside risk (apart from limiting exposure). Savvy investors (and bankers) get rightfully suspicious at all-or-nothing propositions like the one cryptos collectively pitched.

Certainly, the networking and prestige of being involved in that deal has value. But personally I'd still be disappointed having to stay up preparing a deck until 4am that ultimately led nowhere.

But, again, I'm still a little confused why we're bending over backwards to try to relate this back to crypto somehow? Are there not enough crypto discussions on HN already?

> I'd still be disappointed having to stay up preparing a deck until 4am that ultimately led nowhere

Disappointed but not devastated.

> I'm still a little confused why we're bending over backwards to try to relate this back to crypto somehow?

I think it's one commenter. Unfortunately, it reflects a prevalent (and wrong) hypothesis from the cryptocurrency community that the investment risks inherent to cryptocurrency are normal. They're not.

Thank you for confirming this. I read the other post and was actually worried I was dumb for a second because I couldn't see the parallels at all.

>A public listing wouldn't change the value of the company. This is not some hot high-growth tech IPO that retail investors would clamor over.

Why would that make a difference? Generally, an asset the same risk/return profile will be more valuable if it's highly liquid, right? Which an IPO would do.

The Jr. bankers billed a metric-ton of hours and made their firms truckloads in fees.

Yes and no. A lot of that work if not most would have been essentially speculative in the hope of getting a big payoff if the deal went through.

The lawyers on the other hand would have billed hourly.

Neither the equity issuance under discussion nor the cryptocurrency markets are good examples of exponential growth.

> People in life are what matters. Money matters too, of course, and it's tempting to dream about having FU riches. But when we live in this culture where we're all trying to gamble, and institutions are trying to gamble, and the losers get quietly swept under the rug and silenced, all that's left is the impression that everyone is winning except you. And it's ~impossible to come to your senses when you're caught up in that. It's just so dangerous and greedy.

I recently became a multi-millionaire (not from crypto) and this is so true. I'm less happy than I was when I rented month to month, didn't own a couch and ate ramen most nights. I actually really miss it- too many obligations and responsibilities to go back now. I wish I enjoyed my 20s more.

I thought that I wanted money above all else. Then I got the money and realized I don't really need that. I'm only close to 1 other human in the whole world and sometimes I wonder if she even cares for me anymore since all I do is work to make more money.

I was just so wrong about my whole life. Even though I'm young, I feel as though I'm entrenched in this game now with no viable way out.

> I'm only close to 1 other human in the whole world...

It's worth considering whether you'd feel the same if you'd chosen some other path. Having people you're close to doesn't appear to depend on what you do with your working life, at least that's my perspective.

I also spent my working life chasing money, but it's not like I don't have friends. I have a load of family that I'm close to as well. Somehow it seems none of them care what I'm actually up in terms of business, in fact I doubt they'd even be able to explain it as a one-liner. I'm in my hometown at the moment for a family wedding. I don't think I know what most of the dozens of family members do for a living, other than headline.

Basically if you want to have fulfilling relationships, go and do that. In fact it's even easier now that you have some money to pay for expenses. Just call your old pals from school and say you want to hang out. You'll find you have more friend than you think.

> I recently became a multi-millionaire (not from crypto) and this is so true. I'm less happy than I was

> Even though I'm young, I feel as though I'm entrenched in this game now with no viable way out.

I'd be happy to take those unwanted millions off your hands so that you could return to the life you miss. I'm the breadwinner of a single-income family in the Seattle area and I don't make a FANG-level salary. If we could afford to buy a home instead of renting, I think we'd be much happier.

I strongly recommend taking a few weeks off and traveling someplace random. You'll be able to see how your current money goes so much further almost anywhere else in the world and that you have many more options than you think you do... plus you'll meet new people.

Don't worry so much about it, likely you're a bit burned out and feel trapped when you're actually more free than most people.

I think I've been officially burnt out for ~14 months now (read: even longer than that). In that time we've taken a couple 1 week vacations. When I get back I'm back to my normal self for 3 weeks or so and then I notice the signs again. Is it important to take those weeks consecutively instead of multiple shorter trips? Genuinely curious.

I think one source of my woes is the proverbial "golden handcuffs". Yes, I have a lot of money already. But, I'm expected to continue operating as I have been for multiple years to come (and yes, there is a strong financial incentive to perform). Willful failure to perform could bring lawsuits, resignations, bankruptcy, who knows.

To my rationale, I already committed to n additional years of start-up-hustle level work (100% growth per year for multiple years). There is a strong financial incentive to complete this. If I willfully fail to perform I risk essentially bankruptcy.

I'm aware that I said in my previous post that I don't really need the money. But, at the same time I do? I have a mortgage, wife, (soon) children. I do regret almost all significant life choices I've made to date currently, but now that I'm here it's overly painful to get out (I think?).

Sorry for the rant. Lots of pressure. I should probably start writing in a journal instead of posting my thoughts publicly online.

Not at all. Throwaway accounts are for exactly this, and we're a community, so we're here to back you up.

When I made a throwaway some years ago, I also made a gmail and put it in the throwaway's profile. I ended up getting a lot of supportive emails that helped me through a rough time. Some of the advice was stuff that can't really be shared publicly too, which was useful.

I empathize a lot with the expectation to continue doing your job, and it's worth addressing. Take care of yourself.

I burnt out last year just over a year ago.

I shut everything down and went and got a full time job.

It’s only after a year of not working more than 40hrs a week have I realised how close to the wind I sailed (burnout co-incided with some serious health issues).

Now I work 9-5 for a decent wage and have time for my partner, her boy and my hobbies (Chess and cycling).

We are fortunate, we work in an in demand industry, from deciding I just wanted to go work for someone else to getting a job took 9 days.

My point is that if the money isn’t making you happy then take a few weeks off mull over what you want, write it down, put it in an envelope and open that envelope in 3mths, if it’s still what you want then go for it.

The only thing certain in life is none of us have enough time.

> Take a few weeks off mull over what you want, write it down, put it in an envelope and open that envelope in 3mths, if it’s still what you want then go for it.

I'm going to do this. Thank you. I have a leisure trip planned soon for 2 weeks (first time ever taking >1 week off at a time). I will do it then.

If I could be the devil's advocate I would say that you aren't scaling properly and that is leading to your stress but I am no new pot millionaire. Employ those around you that you trust and that will do well for you. "if you want to do it fast go alone, if you want to go far go with others"

I am in almost the same position as you, but probably a less liquid position. Wife and kid on the way even. If you want to chat more ping me at my email in my profile. There are a lot of options including just connecting with others in a similar position.

Yes - take 6 months off to go and do something completely different. Weeks 2-4 will be difficult as you struggle to let go. Months 2-6 will be incredible.

Are you a multi-millionaire in hard assets with a return on investment, or on paper (such as stock options or illiquid stock ownership)?

Thank you for your perspective; it's rarely shared.

> Ok, so what's my point? Well, the mindset of those junior bankers is what permeates America. We're all temporarily embarrassed millionaires, right? It's a kind of shared madness.

I think you're missing the point. It's not really about not getting rich quick...the junior bankers probably spent months/years of 100+ hours weeks working on slide decks to get this done, only to have all their work thrown out. For the guys at the top its just one of many deals that fell threw, but for the junior bankers it's probably the most important if not only deal they've worked on in their short careers, and now it's thrown out. I think you'd be upset if a year+ of your work suddenly counted for nothing, regardless of the amount of money involved.

> People in life are what matters. Money matters too, of course, and it's tempting to dream about having FU riches. But when we live in this culture where we're all trying to gamble, and institutions are trying to gamble, and the losers get quietly swept under the rug and silenced, all that's left is the impression that everyone is winning except you.

FWIW most of the people working in the finance industry are not chasing money thinking of themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires, they are simply trying to provide stability and a good life for their families.

> My Bitcoin friend from 2010 wound up a millionaire, but he lost his love along the way, and as far as I know he still hasn't found anyone. Was that rich life worth it?

Isn't this a false dichotomy? Tons of people divorce because of lack of money too.

>the junior bankers probably spent months/years of 100+ hours weeks working on slide decks to get this done, only to have all their work thrown out

Why would I care if I get paid salary for the work done anyway?

> >the junior bankers probably spent months/years of 100+ hours weeks working on slide decks to get this done, only to have all their work thrown out

> Why would I care if I get paid salary for the work done anyway?

While I agree with you, some people need more than monetary compensation to feel fulfilled at work. Some find value in ownership, autonomy, discovery, and other things. It's not hard to imagine some people (IMO _especially_ more junior people, who may be more 'starry eyed' so to speak) to be more motivated by these other factors.

Sorry but do I really need to explain why on a human level having months/years of work thrown out might be emotionally painful? They're bankers not robots.

And even if they were robots, having a deal like this fall through hurts their career. It's not irreparable damage, but people are going to give way less of shit about the fact that they worked on it now.

I'm just saying it doesn't have to be emotionally painfull. I do my work as best as I can, regardless the outcome.

Wait, if you bought Bitcoin before 2013, you bought at $20 tops. Was your dad's nest egg $140? Even if that's true, what's so bad about it being worth $120,000 at the peak last year? Even if you got the years wrong, if you bought when MtGox was still active, you bought at a much lower price than even today.

I mean, apart from the fact that you left it on MtGox, that investment had a 6,000x return. What's so bad about that, and why did it "hit you" in 2013? I can't make heads or tails of your comment. How did you manage to lose money buying Bitcoin before 2013?

Investment bankers working to take companies public or in M&A are not even in the same ballpark as someone who got taken in one of the many cryptocoin scams that everyone has been screaming about being scams for ten years. There is no comparison.

The takeaway is not about love and life lessons, it's about listening to people who are smarter than you when they scream that something is a pyramid scheme.

The point is, it's the same mindset. The level of craziness varies wildly, but the underlying goal of "I want to seek out exponential growth" is the same. And it's worth recognizing that.

> it's the same mindset

It's really not. Senior bankers carefully weigh downside risks. Those risks are hedged by retainers (i.e. up-front, non-refundable advisory fees), cross-sales (e.g. management fees from a client's assets in the fund business making up for false starts at equity capital markets) and diversification (e.g. "ARAMCO is a juicy whale, but I'll keep a quarter of my staff working on other prospects").

Junior bankers get less deal diversification, but having worked on a deal of this calibre is nothing to sneeze at. The qualified will have distinguished themselves and earned front seats on future deals.

Furthermore, both senior and junior bankers have salaries, benefits and stock in their company. At quite a few of those firms, buying cryptocurrencies in any meaningful quantity would be reason to question a junior's judgement.

> My Bitcoin friend from 2010 wound up a millionaire, but he lost his love along the way, and as far as I know he still hasn't found anyone. Was that rich life worth it?

Was his loss of his 'love' related to his 'investment' in bitcoin? If not, how are the 2 events related?

> Ok, so what's my point? Well, the mindset of those junior bankers is what permeates America. We're all temporarily embarrassed millionaires, right? It's a kind of shared madness.

Some of us took the old adage to heart that "if it's too good to be true, then it probably is" and invested wisely in assets that give a nice, compound return. I'm not rich, but I'm very very comfortable and I travel a lot. It's a good life and it was achieved the "old fashioned way."

How did he lose his girlfriend/wife? Working long nights? Did he move into a big, but empty mansion?

what