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Comment by gonehome | Hacker News Reader

They're fun, but extremely dangerous and commuting regularly on one increases the odds you'll get hurt. There's some risk with bicycling too, but I think when there's an added motor it's easier to be going to fast and hit gravel without really realizing it.

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I have commuted via bicycle and Vespa scooter and I feel so much safer on the Vespa. I can keep up with traffic, I have proper mirrors and signals, and I am wearing better safety gear.

In UK a moped is 50 times more dangerous per unit of distance than a car. In EU 10 times:

https://ethicalhaydonism.wordpress.com/2018/02/04/micromorts...

A lot of the statistics on The danger of mopeds/scooters/motorcycles do not differentiate between a commuter rising to work on a 200cc scooter and a bar-hopper riding home on the freeway on a litre sportbike.

In the US, anyway, half of motorcycle fatalities involve drunk riders.

> half of motorcycle fatalities involve drunk riders

Really? I did not realize this at all! I suppose this should make me feel 50% safer on the road as a non-drunk motorcyclist.

One time I was out with friends and I'd ridden my motorcycle. As an experiment, I had one beer and then rode home. Just that one beer that wouldn't have mattered at all in a car was very noticeable when riding my motorcycle, and I vowed no alcohol ever again when riding.

> I suppose this should make me feel 50% safer on the road as a non-drunk motorcyclist.

Potato paradox, you're way safer than that! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_paradox

(assuming there's more sober riders than drunk ones, which I hope is the case)

The only appropriate ABV for two-wheeled travel is zero.

I've commuted on both and feel safer on a Vespa too, but realized that led me to more dangerous behavior. For example, taking busier roads, riding when it's dark and rainy, etc.

I used to ride motorcycles and while it's true you have more control thanks to your speed & signals, and you have better safety gear, you have to ride in traffic like a car. IMO that's a huge risk cyclists don't contend with. I don't think "oncoming car turns left into rider" happens to cyclists with nearly the same frequency as it happens motorcycles, for example.

Bicyclists deal with turning traffic running into them from all directions. Go faster than "normal" and everyone underestimates your speed and thinks they can slip in while completely disregarding your safety. A narrower profile and being outside the attention cone make bicycling in traffic much more problematic than on a motorcycle.

big difference between these and a vespa .. vespa you likely also had a license for, had insurance for, and there were likely rules about equipment (helmet for example) that you had to wear. Also like you said you could keep up with traffic and there were regulations on the mirrors etc required.

Ebikes have NONE of that.

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