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Comment by phatboyslim | Hacker News Reader

To add some anecdotal experience here, I replaced my 2015 MBP which I loved, with a 5th Gen Lenovo X1 Carbon and I can honestly say I have no regrets. The machine is wonderful for development. Light but powerful, very pleasant to type on, checks all the right boxes. You can use Linux or Windows (which honestly has come quite a long ways and works quite well). Also, you can game with these laptops now thanks to USB-C external graphics enclosures, giving you a work machine on the go, and a gaming machine at home.

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I also recently left a MBP for a Lenovo T-series laptop. One of my favorite things is the keyboard. It doesn't compare to a mechanical keyboard or anything, but it's much nicer than anything Apple offers (Which seem to keep getting worse)

exactly the same here, 2012 generation MBP to T480s. Never had such a nice keyboard, mechanical or not. I actually prefer it over the old T series, it got exactly the right key travel for me. I also like the case design. Light, robust and nice to the touch, has good port placement and all the ports I need without those stupid dongles.

Only problem: Windows 10. I‘m slowly getting there setting it up with WSL to be nearly as productive as with MacOS, but so far the hardware makes up for it.

Ah, I'm running Linux on the T480, and it's great for that. I've had no driver issues.

The latest touchbar rMBP does offer a slight improvement over last year’s failure-prone version, but I am sure the T-series is better.

You should definitely give it a try in a shop. My partner was for many years using MacBooks, but when he compared the new rMBP keyboard to the latest X1C, the difference is so clear for the ThinkPad that now we have again one Windows computer in the house.

I think the modern ThinkPad keyboards are nice, but when I got myself the T25 I have to say it has the pinnacle of laptop keyboards. I really wish they'd release a laptop with the classic keyboard every couple of years; it'll be very hard for me to replace this. The feel of the keys is nice and soft, there's lots of key travel, it's very hard to write typos and the PgUp/PgDwn keys are in a perfect location.

Does the keyboard allow me to type iMessages and build iOS apps in Xcode?

Nope, you're stuck in your little garden by yourself for now.

You can install google `messages` for android based sms now, and KDE connect lets you do the same without google involved, well, assuming you use android :)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kde.kdecon...

Yes, https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/92unvp/my_guide_f...

What about the trackpad ?

It's a thinkpad, you don't use the trackpad, you use the "nub"

Yeah, the downside to getting used to the trackpoint is that I don't know if I can ever switch to a laptop without one. Trackpads feel so clunky now.

Do you have any tips for getting used to it? I've been using my first Thinkpad (a 5th gen X1 Carbon) and I've tried on and off to get used to it but it doesn't feel like it'll ever be better than using the trackpad.

Disable your touchpad and never take your hands off home-row. The real "ah-ha" for me was when I became proficient at using the nub while my hands were on home-row.

IMO the nub isn't more accurate or anything like that, 95% of the value is simply the position next to home-row.

Jack up the sensitivity to maximum and it works pretty well. I don't need to carry a mouse with me when I'm traveling because the nub is so much better.

To add to that, on Xfce at least it’s not enough to adapt the graphical mouse settings but one also needs to manually set (e.g.) /sys/bus/serio/devices/serio1/serio2/sensitivity to a larger value (I use 220) for a suitably fast mouse.

Same here. I found learning vim to be easier than getting used to the nib. Would love for the nib to be effective for me. I think the nib requires to much force to push around.

You shouldn't be applying force. The idea is to move it around like a joystick. Almost all force should be lateral.

> I think the nib requires to much force to push around.

Adjust the sensitivity upwards and it requires virtually no force at all.

I'm not sure what sensitivity I have it set at but most of the time I'm only moving the tip of my finger maybe half a millimeter at the most. you shouldn't have to press it that hard but it does take a while for most poeple to get the hang of it.

Am I the only one finding the trackpad a lot more usable than that "nipple"? (And I am a trackpad hater). Most people don't realize you can have very precise movement on the trackpad just by slightly rotating the finger while mantaining it down. Try it: get to the nearest point moving the finger normally, then adjust finely by rotating the finger tip to the wanted direction. Very easy and at least to me much more accurate than that red thing.

Yeah, trackpad is more usable. But also more of a hassle.

I do most things with the keyboard with both hands on the home row. This is great, but there are still applications and some websites where I need to use the mouse. For those things, it's great to not have to move my hands to use a mouse -- it's the reason I really like the TrackPoint.

Once your hand is there though, the trackpad is better. Though you can extend that to; once your hand is on a real mouse, the real mouse is even better. But that's even farther away. And whipping your hand back and forth between mouse and keyboard is really annoying, at least to me.

I’ve been using my thumb on MacBook trackpads without having to noticeably move my hand. In fact moving back to a desktop having to move my hand is annoying.

And there on the 2012 era smaller trackpads. Probably easier on the new ones that are twice the size.

To be completely honest, I don't use the nub. The trackpad was 5/5 on the MBP, but I feel the trackpad is 4/5 on the X1. It's plenty fine to use... I also carry a portable mouse in my laptop bag.

To each their own, but if the MBP is 5/5 the trackpad on the X1 is still a 1/5 to me. I hate the thing. I also never use the nub.

I haven't met a PC trackpad I like though.

Learning the nub requires practice, but the payoff is huge. I'm half convinced that I won't get another laptop without one.

Main benefits:

+ hands stay on homerow while using mouse, so I can switch from keys to mouse to keys very fast and without losing my place.

+ Don't need extra space for a physical mouse

+ Easy to use at certain angles

- Not easy to use at other certain angles

I've been using a trackpoint for a long while now and I was 99% certain they were superior to everything else but i had been hearing a lot of good things about the surface book trackpads and that they were at the same level as apples so I decided to switch for a while.

its been about 4 months of using nothing but a trackpad and even though its really good im fairly certain I'll be sticking with trackpoints from here on out.

one thing that's really starting to bug me lately is the accidental clicks from your palm hitting the edge of the trackpad. I don't know how people manage with those new macbooks with the oversized trackpads

> I don't know how people manage with those new macbooks with the oversized trackpads

Have new MacBook, never had this problem. Mabye they're detecting accidental inputs?

Constant incorrect activation of the trackpad was one of the main reasons I sold my '16 MBP and bought a '15. Never had that problem with any previous Macbook.

The other reason for selling it was two failures of the awful keyboard in six months - I wanted shot before the warranty ended.

I have a MacBook Pro 2015 and a Magic Trackpad 2 and get phantom inputs on both. Still, I’m an old TrackPoint user and I prefer the Mac trackpads regardless.

> + Easy to use at certain angles

> - Not easy to use at other certain angles

Any tips on what the correct angle is? Every few month for the past 3 years I've been trying to get used to the trackpoint on my lenovo. I never stick with it longer than an hour. It's just so much slower than the trackpad. Am I doing something wrong?

The only angle I've had issue using trackpoint with is if you're very high above the laptop, like if you're standing above it. At this angle, trackpad is better.

Protip: Lenovo makes different styles of nubs that you can buy. "Soft Rim" is easiest to use IMO ( amazing grip), followed by the "Classic Dome" (great grip but rubs off easily).

Try playing with acceleration factor in your OS / DE settings.

I used to have trackpoint send the cursor across the screen pretty efficiently when pressed harder, while keeping it quite reasonably accurate when pressed gently.

The same applies to mice, but the threshold(s) for a trackpoint differ(s) from mouse's, so it pays to tweak it until you're comfortable.

+ middle mouse button

Makes using 3D software on a laptop much easier, and also allows using X11's "middle-click to paste".

I've been idly thinking of getting a new laptop, and it's been disappointing to see how few have a true middle mouse button.

You can get a middle click on a MBP trackpad with third party software.

Have you tried the surface book one?

I have not. To be fair, other than the X1 Carbon, I haven't tried any of the latest PC trackpads (Surface, Dell, etc.) in a while. Hopefully they have improved.

Dell's prove just as good as the carbons aside from keyboard. The dell keyboard is miniscule.

The x1 has what feels like a full sized keyboard in a lightweight package, lightweight like a macbook air but with a nice mechanical keyboard. The dell feels like a netbook that found some big boy pants. It's keyboard is atrocious/typing feels cramped.

I used thinkpads for a long while, and TrackPoint eventually came to hurt my index finger--call it RSI if you will, but whenever I use TrackPoint these days the distal joints of my index finger start aching, which is the usual reminder for me to disable it and use the trackpad instead.

I have an X1 Carbon, and I use both, depending on if I want long-distance travel, scrolling, or fine manipulation.

No faults to speak of (~10 year macbook user here) as someone who uses an x1 c5 now. I miss using cmd-c/cmd-v & soulver (math app. on MacOS), but otherwise no drawbacks.

I had exactly the same issue when moving to Linux from macOS.

Certainly in the Gnome Terminal on Ubuntu I've been relieved to find out that C-c is still SIGINT and you can get copy using Ctrl-Shift-c. Ctrl-Shit-v to insert.

Terminal can be configured either way.

What do you mean "cmd-c/cmd-v"? Copy and paste? ctrl-c/ctrl-v...

Having copy/paste be out-of-band means that ctrl-c is not overloaded between "copy" and "terminate process".

The Ctrl key is for sending control codes.

The Command key is for sending commands.

35 years on, and Apple is still the only company that got this right.

Wait no. I went from a Linux work laptop to a Mac laptop about five years ago and not having a dedicated modifier key (Mod4) for working with the window manager was a huge pain and a pretty steep un-learning curve.

On my personal laptop, the Mod4 key is just for me to use for customization.

You manage windows with your mouse and the window title bars/borders. There are universal shortcuts available also, just like Cut, Paste, Print, etc. are universal.

Of course, in an ideal world, windows would be "spatial", remembering their position and size so they always opened exactly how you left them, so managing them with your mouse would be no big deal, and even more efficient and human-centric than whatever tiling WM Linux users think is cool today. But these days not even Apple wants to commit to that. Nevertheless, the paradigm of a universal set of commands that all applications respond to is central to the Mac user experience, and the window-management shortcuts Mac OS provides are part of this. You're just so used to a difficult-to-use OS where "window manager" is a separate concept that you have difficulty understanding the simplicity of how the Mac does things.

I’ve been an almost daily macOS user since 2006.

As far as I’ve been able to tell, you have to install third party software like Better Touch Tool or Spectacles if you want keyboard shortcuts for window management other than a full screen toggle.

Almost all of the window management functions of macOS are mouse driven and hidden behind slow animations.

Personally I find the experience awkward. I don’t like taking my hands off the keyboard just to snap a window to the side of the screen or move it to another display.

Compare that to Gnome where super-left snaps to the left instantly. Super-up toggles full screen and shift-super-up moves the window to the next screen instantly. All without the slow as molasses animations.

This post is. Uh. Excessive.

Posting from GNOME 3, where all my out-of-band shortcuts are on Super just as on a Mac. (Setting it up did take me a whole five minutes, granted.)

This is a distinction that doesn't matter anymore. Keyboards aren't controlling complex mechanical systems anymore (at least not PC keyboards).

I use ctrl-key all the time to send signals to a running process...

Yeah,me too, plus another 0.0001% of the computing public.

I'd bet you money that more people use them for that than use Super to manage windows. ;)

I really like the super key for moving windows about in Gnome.

I can’t believe that macOS lacks keyboard shortcuts for window management in Split View.

>Also, you can game with these laptops now thanks to USB-C external graphics enclosures, giving you a work machine on the go, and a gaming machine at home.

What setup do you use with your X1?

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