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Comment by ashleyn | Hacker News Reader

Immediately, I'd be wondering what very powerful spy agency or organisation felt the need to break into my car, and why.

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I'm not sure I'd be so paranoid. We've read of people managing to hack the key openers, etc. They're an attractive target.

I mean, if you were going to leave a box containing $30,000 on your doorstep. A box not only containing 30k, but a box that was labelled that it contained 30k. How would you protect it? Put a serial number on it so you can prove it's yours? A bike lock? A motion sensor? Cement it into the ground?

What lengths would you expect someone to go to, to try to walk away with this box? Just give it a little kick to see if it moves? A screwdriver or a pry bar? Angle grinder?

Once you divorce yourself from the commonality of a car, it's quite bizarre to think that not only do most people leave their second most valuable possession (or most valuable, if you rent your home) on their doorstep .. but that they just assume it won't happen to them. It doesn't take a targeted attack for someone to realise that that exposed, valuable, mobile asset is .. well, exposed, valuable and mobile.

$30k in cash is not the same as a $30k car. A $30k car that's been stolen is not worth $30k, then there's liquidity, risk and a bunch of other things. Having your car parked outside is not at all like having a box containing $30k outside your house.

I have to worry about a $1,000 bicycle. For some reason it's just socially accepted that this will happen to a $1,000 bicycle. But park a car worth an order of magnitude, and the level of worry actually goes down. That's the bit that throws me for a loop.

I'm not trying to argue that anyone should live in fear. Just that assumptions of state-sponsored action severely overestimate which ballpark this lives in. This is more complex than an opportunistic thief, but well within career criminal - and probably well below "steal to order".

That's because most of us recognize that 20 seconds with angle grinder will make that $1,000 bicycle disappear. 20 minutes at a stolen bike dealer - which are everywhere - will turn it into $50.

20 seconds with an angle grinder will not make a $30,000 car disappear. Selling it on the black market is also a much bigger pain in the ass, then selling a stolen bicycle.

People leave $300,000 dollar homes unattended all the time - protected by nothing more then a flimsy lock, and a few panes of glass. Yet, most of the time, people don't worry about someone stealing their house.

A bicycle is also often more than an order of magnitude easier to steal; you can't just pick up a car, and a bolt cutter won't cut it even for a car worth $5,000.

well then is it closer to having a box with $15k? $10k? $5k? In all these situations, the incentive is still there.

Probably $3-6k but with the associated risks and punishments of a $30k crime, and much more if you happen to have a firearm on you while committing it.

This is Europe, nobody stealing a car is carrying a gun.

Presumably it takes a business and facilities to to realize its value, so the barrier to entry is high. Like the thief needs access to a shady used car dealer or shady used parts business, unless it's a low volume rural thing where they can strip cars in the backyard and sell parts on eBay.

Assuming the 30000$ car is one ton, that's only 15$ per pound of car... Not too valuable.

Amsterdam to the Polish border is 8 hours. Do you think it'd be worth $1000/hour?

(Yes, this is perpetuating a horrible stereotype. Nothing personal, Poles, you just happen to be the closest border for this particular stereotype.)

Nah, BMW-thieves are incredibly resourceful. They managed to steal parts of the dashboard and airbag from my neighbours car, without further damage, while in the driveway with the alarms not triggered on a modern 3-series. All the neighbour noticed was the dog barking a few times at night. We all sleep within 30 ft of that car. Practice makes perfect. Those parts are sourced to eastern Europe and are stolen on demand.

It's a widespread problem right now. It happens in waves, and if you go to BMW dealers in larger cities it's not uncommon to see 4-5 5 series missing the dashboard and airbags.

What I don't understand is what are they using it for? Can they upgrade older models with it?

Sorry for the late reply. The story (I'm in insurance, but no means to check for validity) is that in Europe total losses are sold for their chassis numbers and then pretty much built up from stolen parts in Eastern Europe. I had a bad run in with a likewise situation when someone crashed into my rear and the offer for the wreck was way high. That meant I had to go get a new one, since via technical total loss I could not get my own car repaired without financial risk.

Crashed vehicles will need replacement dashboards and airbags, probably stealing them to do dodgy repairs on cars that have been in big accidents.

Hardly, this was a very unsophisticated attack, they cut through the entire loom as opposed to through individual wires so it was quickly noticeable what had occurred.

Did you even read the article? They knew enough to disable SOS and interior car alarm sensors in a seemingly subtle way most people would dismiss. Maybe they should’ve taken their time and waited around for police?

What’s unsophisticated is stealing a radio or nav by slashing the back of the wiring loom, and then the owner having to replace the entire loom at the cost of many thousands of dollars. It sucks but that’s life. Car thieves aren’t your friends, DGAF about damage, and those that don’t operate on a “speed is life” principle get caught. Maybe you should show a little respect to the knowledge and tactics demonstrated?

Why should they show respect to these car thieves? They made a valid point; it's easy to imagine an attack like this being done better.

That agency would have jammed communications in the area so no alarm would have been raised, unless raising an alarm was their actual purpose.

Signal jamming will trigger high-end car alarms as well.

Also, if the alarm is connected to a security provider, a disruption in communication with the car will also cause them to follow up on it.

What is this magical land you live in where signal jamming triggers a CAR alarm?

PDF alert: https://automotive.vodafone.co.uk/media/239296/stolen%20vehi...

I wouldn’t trust a mobile carrier with anything - they can’t even protect their mobile customers from basic stuff as SMS spam or eavesdropping via SS7.

Not to mention, I technically can’t see how this thing will be able to phone home if the mobile phone frequencies are being jammed.

That would make me crazy. Before an important meeting that would seriously throw me off. It's a good play

They were in posession of a 0-day for this car

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