Hacker News Reader

Comment by jacquesm | Hacker News Reader

key bit here:

> The domain has also been excluded from future registrations so that no other entity (local or abroad) can re-register it.

So much for PGs theory that someone there wanted the domain and they took it at a pretext: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1764475 It should be easy enough to check up on it periodically to see if they're true to their word.

I wonder if the "local Libyan internet community" is an open body or if they are semi government.

On the whole this is a pretty levelheaded and clear response, and it never hurts to see the other side of the story.

That said, I still think that you're much better off to invest your time, money and effort in to .com, .net and .org domains and to steer clear of cutesy domains from countries that can disable your domain based on the content of your services.

As for their regulations being only available in Arabic: http://nic.ly/regulations.php

View on HN

That's what they say now. Maybe it was their original motivation; maybe not. But I know for a fact they've confiscated names in order to resell them in the past, because they did it to Answerly.

Yes, that's what makes this hard, but keeping an eye on them is trivial, and it would be easy enough to call them out on this for any future violations where they sell the domain.

What was their stated reason for repossessing the answerly domain?

The bit in the other thread reads like this:

"We purchased .ly variant of our domain name through an authorized Libyan registrar about 10 months ago. It was seized back without explanation a few days later. When I contacted the registrar I was told that the domain was available for "four figures" through domains.ly (an aftermarket .ly reseller service that is operated by the same authorized registrar we used to purchase the domain initially). The domain wasn't critical, so we didn't pursue it any further.", so that seems to be a ploy by the (greedy) registrar rather than by NIC.ly from what I can see.

Did that make the news in any way?

And when you "call them out on this" and they ignore you, because domain registration revenue is a pittance next to the revenues they get from petrochemicals, what's your next step?

I won't be buying their domains any more.

Just like I do now...

But I also won't be giving them the benefit of the doubt, which given the evidence is the only course of action in this case. They clearly spelled out what they were going to do, there are cases on record of the NIC.ly institution contacting other website owners regarding their content and if Ben & Co had simply decided to go for a .com instead of .ly for their 'sex positive' (whatever that means) URL shortener instead of trying to walk this very fine line then none of this would have happened.

It's just that they will not be able to hide behind that trick more than once, so they just cut off some of their own room to maneuver in a very public way.

If a .ly ever gets repossessed and re-sold within a timespan short enough that the press still remembers they'll be torn to shreds.

And anybody that continues to base their business on a .ly has been properly warned and should move away from there.

Here's what sex-positive means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_positive

That's in direct conflict with the NIC.ly regulations:

"3.5 The Applicant certifies that, to the best of his/her knowledge the domain name is not being registered for any activities/purpose not permitted under Libyan law."

Which is based on Islamic law, which is notorious for heavy handed limitations on what people can do in their version of morality.

"4.2 Domain names must not contain obscene, scandalous, indecent, or contrary to Libyan law or Islamic morality words, phrases nor abbreviations."

http://nic.ly/regulations.php

So just saying that that is your mission already rules out a .ly domain for you, even if the actual domain name itself is still within the rules, polyandrous relationships, free sexuality (especially free female sexuality) and so on are likely to offend.

That does not make it right. But you have to pick your battles.

I think it's worth pointing out here that NIC.ly != Libyan Government.

Yes, it's part of Libyan Telecom (which maybe government owned, I don't know) - but in all of my writing on the subject at least I've been careful to separate the two.

Clearly the decision making process around all this is being done by a few individuals at NIC.ly, not the Libyan Government.

Wait, why is that clear?

It's clear to me because I'm the person who's been communicating with NIC.ly on this issue.

That doesn't make sense. If they ignore you because the revenue is pittance, then they wouldn't bother with trying to resell the domains either.

The revenue from the largest domain registrars in the world won't move the dials on the Libyan GDP. And .LY isn't even close to one of the largest TLDs. The Libyan economy is dominated by an 11-figure petrochemical industry. I'm not seeing the "if" here.

1. The revenue from petrochemicals is not going to NIC.ly.

2. You contested jacquesm's argument that NIC.ly can be "called out" when the sell the domain. You said that, NIC.ly will probably ignore that because the domain registering revenue is a pittance. If that is true, then NIC.ly won't try to confiscate and then sell a domain. Why go to all that trouble when they can sit back and enjoy petrochemical dollars.

a: So if NIC.ly thinks domain registration revenues are a pittance, then they won't sell the domain.

b: If it is not a pittance they can be called out because they have to listen to valid complaints. Otherwise no one will register .ly domains

Pretty good statement in my opinion. It's sad that western media portrayed this entire incident as a "crazy muslim country that does whatever it wants in the name of Sharia law." Seriously?

The communication could have been better (or perhaps it was nonexistent), but if they have regulations not allowing adult and NSFW content on their domains, they are well within their rights. There are many US hosts that have similar regulations and its absolutely understandable.

I've yet to see someone say they aren't within their right. I think the complaint is in the lack of upfront warning, and the track record of seizing non-sex related domains (Answer.ly).

… My advice, stay clear of putting your business interest in the hands of countries like Libya. These guys are still decades from simple notions as the rule of law, no direct offense to Libya and Libyans.

[EDIT] It may be hard for everyone to understand my point because of cultural differences, BUT I lived in similar country, I’m talking from experience not common sense.

Steer clear of registering a domain in a country you're not actually in...

As for their regulations being only available in Arabic: http://nic.ly/regulations.php

Yeah, did you read ALL of the regulations? Including the bit about your content needing to stay within Libyan law.

Try finding ANYWHERE on the Internet that outlines what Libyan law is in English.

And I say English not because I expect the Internet to all be in English, but simply because as you point out the official NIC.ly regulations are published in English.

Without that, it is impossible to put together a complete set of the regulations (the NIC.ly regs + the Libyan law).

How can you hold the NIC.ly administration responsible for there not being a Libyan law reference in English?

One way to deal with stuff like this is to engage the services of a local legal expert and have them spell it out for you. That's not a thing for a layperson, even if they're versed in Arabic.

You should do the same if you intend to register a .de domain and don't have access to the German law texts and/or do not speak German. The German authorities are under no obligation to present their texts in English, in fact they would definitely not do a thing like that because it would create potential ambiguity.

And yes, I read all of the regulations, and yes, I think they're perfectly reasonable. And I would never ever think of registering a .ly domain because of those regulations.

Perhaps you shouldn't have built your business on a Libyan domain in the first place then...

This is what I keep coming back to. When you register a foreign domain, you are at the mercy of the laws/whims of that entity. Eyes wide open and all that.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com