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Comment by gav | Hacker News Reader

The only time I ordered something with Alexa is when Amazon offered a $10 credit to do so.

It's a terrible interface for one, but the biggest hurdle is that I really don't trust Amazon's pricing. Between add-on items, pantry, and third-party merchants, I always feel that I have to double check if I'm getting ripped off.

I think a lot of this would be alleviated by better integration with the mobile app so I could go "Alexa, order AA batteries" and it would add to an order in progress, so that I could then verify the items later on and complete.

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You can do this, just tried it to verify. "Alexa add ______ to my shopping cart."

That's a bit of a mouthful. And it's generally a problem with all those voice assistants.

It's like an extra word...

It sounds like you just don't like voice assistants, which is fine but don't pretend that the words "shopping cart" are insurmountably larger than "buy".

It's not just an extra word. It's many extra syllables, when compared to: "Alexa, buy ___".

I don't like existing voice assistants, but for different reasons - mainly related to being online-only, and not giving ability to add commands at top-level. I want to say "Alexa, X" instead of "Alexa, ask SomeCommercialBrand to do X", ad nauseam.

Exactly. With a real life (human) assistant, you don't need to be so explicit with delegation.

I'd have thought you could specify the verb to use and how to action the verb use, at least to some extent -- eg 'buy' means add items to my shopping list from the list of past-purchased items, flagging new items; 'checkout' means buy the current list.

How many commands to Alexa at this point are at least 3+ words, though. I would think the majority. Alexa, set an alarm, reminder, timer for... Alexa play ___album/song by ___. Alexa, play ___ on TuneIn.

> I want to say "Alexa, X" instead of "Alexa, ask SomeCommercialBrand to do X", ad nauseam.

Isn't that exactly what the Alexa skills are for? If you want a skill that's not available you can make your own, which is exactly what you want to be able to do.

The skills (usually) must follow a specific syntax involving the word "ask". So, for example, if you're using the Domino's skill to buy pizza, you say something like "Alexa, open [pizza brand] and place my Easy Order", or "Alexa, ask [pizza brand] to track my order." which are significantly more unwieldy (and more importantly, hard to remember) than "Alexa, order a pizza."

I frequently have to chain several, distinct "Alexa" commands together to achieve my desired end state. For example, if I want to turn on all the lights in my house, set their brightnesses to 100%, and set their colors to soft white, I have to send that as three distinct commands. Being able to create a shortcut, such as "Alexa, Lumos" or whatever would save roughly 30 seconds per instance.

Edit: I forgot to mention that some larger skills are exempt from this, once Amazon has added additional integrations. For example, for my thermostat, I can say "Alexa, set the AC to 78" rather than "Alexa, ask [brand] to set the temperature to 78". I still haven't discovered the special syntax to set the AC to Away mode yet.

> which are significantly more unwieldy (and more importantly, hard to remember)

And also, they're kind of brainwashing users as well. You find yourself repeating a commercial brand's name out loud, all the time. I'm sure third parties love it.

> Being able to create a shortcut, such as "Alexa, Lumos"

You can do exactly this. I have several set up for my house. They're called 'routines' and can be triggered either with 'Alexa, [keyword]' or at a specific time of day.

You can also chain multiple commands together without saying the wakeword each time. For example 'Alexa, turn on downstairs lights. Downstairs lights white.' You have to enable this feature in the settings so that it will continue to listen briefly after the previous command.

I reorder paper towels all the time. It’s the fastest solution.

When I get around to it, I’ll find a few other things that work well.

I wonder tho... are you better off buying paper towels at Costco if you have one available?

Depends on what you mean by better off. I mean how much can you “save” on paper towels by going to Costco? $10-20 at most? Not even factoring in the cost of the membership and the hassle of going to the store.

that Costco pizza though... that in itself is the membership.

Ewwwww. The hotdogs and churros tho!

Churros are good! I'm not a fan of the hotdogs though, but glad you like them!

You don’t need a membership for the pizza, same with Sam’s club! Though I think both pizzas have declined in quality over the years to make up for their identical price.

I always would get denied at my local Costco because it was inside.

$10-20 saved across dozens of product categories times 53 weeks in a year... Man, I grew up dirt poor, so my mind automatically calculates these angles, knowing that this is how I'll pay for my next vacation. However, I can see that not everyone thinks this way.

It does seem a little crazy/wasteful (fuel, packaging)/expensive to make an order for just paper towels, delivered.

It made sense when I was living in China, along with maybe TP and bottled water. Here on the states it seems like shipping/delivery would make it uneconomical.

Amazon doesn't charge for shipping - it's one of the key selling points for Prime, your free delivery being 2 days instead of 5-7.

But in China it was like a few hours from order to delivery. And even if it is technically free with prime, it really isn’t....it just doesn’t feel sustainable.

I think whatever basis you have for that intuition is off. You're saying it's more efficient and sustainable for everyone to drive to the store in their own personal gasoline-powered vehicle, taking time out of their own busy days, than to have a little bit of cardboard wrapped around the paper towels and dropped off by a shared delivery truck dedicated to the task and taking an optimal route?

Each point of drop off ya substantial costs, so you would get dinged fuel for the delivery of paper towels even if they had other deliveries in the truck. In China, it only works because there are no trucks, heck, it could just be a kid from the corner store with a hand truck.

When you go to the store and buy stuff, you are usually getting a lot of things together going point to point with other things that need getting done, or you are walking to the corner grocery store with a shopping cart if you are lucky enough to be urban. Personally, the fuel cost for having paper towels delivered is substantially more vs me going to get them by myself (since I’m walking to the store with a stroller/cart anyways).

They do, it’s just a subscription plan instead. And the underlying cost is still there, so if it becomes uneconomical then the subscription cost will go up or go away.

You may be able to find a situation where you get someone else to subsidize your cost, but it’s certain to be temporary.

If you're not using Amazon, it depends how close you live to the store. A supermarket delivery truck should drive fewer miles making 10 deliveries than those 10 people would driving to the store. Some supermarkets here will also deliver in reusable crates rather than bags. Most have offered same or next day delivery for years.

I don't know any supermarket that would let you order just paper towels though...

Having moved somewhere not near a delivery point or a lot of large stores, the convenience of same-day Amazon Prime is hard to beat.

Same here. Grew up poor, so I prefer to be aware of prices even though I have plenty now. Fun fact: 4 bottles of great beer at home = 1 glass of beer at a bar. And snacks are healthier too.

I grew up poor too. For the same reason I would always consider drinking at home a worse habit. So yes, that pint at the pub is much more pleasant than a 4 can at home.

Hmm. I think you're conflating issues. My parents didn't drink at all. But we were poor. Also buying 4 bottles/cans doesn't mean you drink them all at once. I'm with the parent comment... I can have FOUR evenings where I sit on the deck and sip a delicious beer (alone or with my wife and dog or a friend, etc) for the same price as a single pint of beer at a pub.

Of course, it's not a universal "or" - sometimes I want to sit a pub with people and try a single pint of beer I've never had before. The (great?!) grandparent point of comparing all these options is a reasonably healthy habit you can build, that often comes from experiencing poverty, and using the options available to you to avoid it in the future.

Yes, that’s what I meant. And “sometimes” I go to bars, too. Just not very often. It’s not even about poverty, it’s about not being stupid. For the same reason I have a coffee machine at home. Paid $800 (+$200 for 2 burr grinders) once, saved thousands by now, and my coffee is better.

How much is your time worth?

Since I have to go to the super market for fresh food, adding 30 seconds to get paper towels doesn't make much of a difference.

This, I guess, outlines a domino effect. I don't go to the supermarket for fresh food. It gets delivered to me by the supermarket, and if I can't be bothered to pick for myself, they'll deliver a selection based on my usual shopping pattern, and I know roughly what they'll deliver by default so e.g last week I didn't even open the app to check what they'd added to my order.

I couldn't imagine having to go to the shops every week.

I don't really get how this can work. Like I wanted to try those udon noodles that are next to the ones I normally buy this week. How do I tell that to Amazon? Or I didn't really like the kimchi last time so I wanted to try something new but instead of cabbage kimchi I bought radish kimchi because it was next on the shelf. But I wouldn't have known to search for that. Or the big avocados look better than the small ones. I'll get two of those instead of 3 of the large ones.

Do you still have this kind of product discovery with Amazon?

"Customers also bought..."

"You might also like..."

"Customers who did not buy this bought .... instead"

>I couldn't imagine having to go to the shops every week.

Why? Is it really so arduous to go out in public? To view a selection of products? To select your own produce? I am completely unable to comprehend how running errands is such an exhausting activity. Even when I was my most depressed, the times I would even turn down activities with friends, I still made it to the various stores I needed to live my life.

Costco is a wholesale market, not a supermarket. Not really a fresh food destination.

Went shopping there yesterday. Got salad mixes, tomatoes, potatoes, apples, carrots, cherries, broccoli, oranges, Brussels sprouts, etc.

Some stuff I buy elsewhere because the quantities are too large even for 2 adults and 3 teenagers.

We clearly have different definitions of "fresh food" if you are including pre-processed bag mixes and boxed vegetables sprayed with preservatives.

Nothing. When I'm not at work I don't get paid.

That's entirely missing the point. How much would you pay to have an extra 30 minutes with your kids or significant other? Or an extra 30 minutes on your hobby project? Or generally speaking doing anything other than buying paper towels at a wholesale market. That's how much your time is worth.

And our time is limited. Our kids are only living with us and wanting to play with us for scant few years. We're only young and healthy and able to do active things for scant few years too. The value of that time is more now than later.

If you're telling me that you would rather spend that 30min driving to Costco, dealing with parking, lugging that big pack of paper towels to the checkout stand, waiting in line, and driving back, all to save $2.50... that says a depressing amount about how much you value your life and the people you spend it with.

EDIT: Or you are actually so poor that the trade-off is "buy low price or don't don't eat next week," in which case I respect it. But then you wouldn't actually be shopping at Costco since it isn't the lowest prices.

It’s not saving. I can go out of my house and buy a pack of paper towels in about 5 minutes. Using Alexa requires planning the magnitude of using Google Calendar for that.

I save over $100 every time I don't go to Costco. Same for Target.

If you only order one or two products, it sounds like you're a good candidate for the Amazon Dash button

Alexa is a hands-free generic solution that I already have.

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