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Comment by skgoa | Hacker News Reader

> If this is what it takes to succeed in our industry, then I accept that I will not. I just simply do not have the stamina for it.

It's a matter of what success means to you. I don't value a fancy job title or a higher number on my bank account (above the 'basic' software engineer pay grade I am at already) enough to do this kind of mentally back-breaking BS work. I do the job I was hired for and get paid for. I do that job to the best of my ability 9-5 (well, 8-4) and then I leave.

For me, that constitutes having succeeded at the school, uni, job hunting and employment challenges. I expect most future successes in my live will come from my family/social live or will be personal triumphs like getting into shape and learning interesting new skills.

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I don't even entertain that nonsense anymore. Being a contractor helps ("You want me to stay late? Great, where do I send the invoice?"). Oddly, I almost never get asked to work overtime anymore because when money is involved critical deadlines suddenly become more flexible.

It amazes me how many people in our industry will eagerly work seven days a week without pay for an employer that:

A) Won't do it themselves. B) Can easily afford to pay for it, but won't.

It won't help you get ahead, either. It shows gullibility, not dedication. That's not the kind of quality you want in a leader of anything. It's for this reason I would disagree with your premise that by not allowing yourself to be exploited you're forgoing future career success. You've learned the first lesson in success which is, crassly, don't be a punk.

>Being a contractor helps ("You want me to stay late? Great, where do I send the invoice?")

Oh man, I've recently gone back into contracting and absolutely love this aspect. Sure, contracting has its downsides, but if you don't want to deal with being bossed around contracting is brilliant.

A sharp friend of mine takes advantage of this. He looks for a full-time job, and then says, "Look, I'd rather work 4 days for 80% of the pay, so just make me an hourly employee at 32 hours a week." He's really good and will stay at the same place for many years, so somebody will say yes.

Then, no matter what crazy things are going on, he's insulated. As he says, "full time is full time, but 32 hours is 32 hours."

That is the most genius fucken' way to play it.

Hah, that is really clever of him. I should try that next time.

I do this. I work on whatever I feel like on the other day.

>It's for this reason I would disagree with your premise that by not allowing yourself to be exploited you're forgoing future career success.

I did this early in my career for a few years, and it was absolutely worth it for my career in the long run. It wasn’t a one sided deal either. My boss allowed me to have all sorts of responsibilities that at the time, I absolutely didn’t have the experience to back up. I got through it entirely based on perseverance and hard work, and when I left that company I landed a much nicer job that was years ahead of what I would have otherwise been able to get. Now I’ve learned and done enough that I largely get to set the terms for my own employment. I haven’t even had to properly apply to a job since then.

It worked for me at the time, because I was young and didn’t really have any responsibilities outside of work. Situations like this are only really a problem if you’re not getting something bigger out of it, or if you have too many personal responsibilities to manage it.

Same here. I simply cant do it, physically. I feel im much weaker than the average person. Im not depressed. Im 32 and need 9 hours of sleep or i wont feel productive. I can pull an allnighter but then i feel like shit the whole week. I get 2-day hangovers when im drinking. Did all the blood and liver tests, chest xrays everything seems fine.

You are not weak, you are normal. There are a lot of people, my brother included, that need their sleep and simply can't function without it.

You only think of yourself as weak, because you compare yourself to people working 12-15 hours every day for years, because they want to "make it" in the software world. In the end, most of them are going to be burned out and depressed, with no family or friends around, because they simply didn't have any time developing that part of their lives. Hopefully, some of them will continue on to do that then later in life.

I'm okay with 7 hours of sleep every day and can function well for 8 hours of work in the work week. But then I need time on the weekends with my friends and with myself to recover. When I'm doing a lot of overtime, the first thing I do on Friday evening is come home, get out of my shoes and fall onto my bed. It's completely normal to be tired after 8 hours of work and needing sleep. Our super-fast, ever changing society puts a lot of pressure on us, and at some point, people will not function under that pressure anymore. Which is why mental health issues are on a high rise.

> I get 2-day hangovers when im drinking.

You may just be getting older. These started for me at 40. And it's not just the physical symptoms: the multiple days of depression and low motivation after they've subsided are deeply unpleasant as well. Drinking to excess just isn't worth it any more, if it ever was.

I'm in my early twenties and I really don't see the appeal of drinking so much that one gets a hangover. Maybe it has different effects on me? Because I start getting sick in progress of drinking after around 5th or 6th beer (I'm Czech, this is considered low amount, my buddies can drink 10 with no problems).

For the record, you’re in good company: even John Carmack can’t function very well without 8 hours of sleep. https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/932600909632327680?...

What precisely made you do the bloodwork?

After 23-25 ive noticed my hangovers getting worse when drinking on the weekends or once every 2 weeks. I thought maybe its a liver problem. Blood tests are just a regular thing i do every year with my health insurance. I was never a heavy drinker, but like hanging out with colleagues and staying out longer once in a while.

I'm pretty much sure you are describing the vast majority of tech workers.

They (we) earn an above average salary, at maybe non Forture 500 companies, 40ish hours weeks, still enjoy what they do at work, but can find fulfillment in other domains outside of it.

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