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Comment by scardine | Hacker News Reader

This is how things should run if the work culture was logic based but with rare exceptions it isn't.

As a borderline autistic person I have a very direct communication style and lost account of how many times I burned myself for failing to "beat around the bush".

You can't say "the project is doomed" even if it is true. You can't say it will be so over budget and take so long that it would be better to cut the losses now. Don't expect to go unpunished for saying "the king is nude".

According to my experience both parents are absolutely right, but the first is how most organizations work and the second is an ideal seldom found in the real world.

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PS: you do get some leeway when you just joined a company, enjoy your honeymoon grace period.

Depends on the circumstances you joined the company.

In some, you actually have to "earn your place" in the company, and most recommendations I've seen are "keep quiet and listen".

Absolutely.

I'm about 3 months in at a new company and starting to see areas for improvement. I just make a note and keep my mouth shut. In another 3-6 months I'll have earned the right to start diplomatically suggesting some of my ideas. For now i just try to understand the thinking that went into decisions that resulted in our current state.

If you want to go into a new organization and "be disruptive" and you're not a management consultant, be prepared for the likely outcome of failure.

Nope. It will tar you forever amongst anyone you say it to as someone with a bad attitude, divisive, etc. I spent three years at a company where a VP basically viewed me dimly (if, admittedly, necessary) because I delivered bad news early on. It was polite and reasonable, but he was in a difficult place, had people actively whispering "Everything is fine" in his ear, and so when it eventually did blow up (and I was one of the ones who swooped in to fix everything ASAP), it was less "I should have listened" and more "(I) just added to (his) pain".

Attitude is important. Like I said, deliver this news as though it's inescapable objective reality. Akin to saying we can't have a picnic because it's raining. It's nobody's fault and it's not due to anyone's shortcomings. Estimating is hard, building good software takes time. This is how much time this project will take. Let us know evaluate the impact and decide how to cope. It doesn't need to be an argument.

It wasn't an argument. It was a messenger bringing bad news they didn't want to hear. And with other messengers who were actively telling him untruths about reality. And he wasn't sufficiently technical to go evaluate the claims himself; he -had- to decide who to listen to. So, unsurprisingly, he listened to the one that felt better.

You seem to believe that everyone is mature enough to hear bad news, delivered objectively, and accept it without blaming the messenger, and without dismissing it because it doesn't conform to their wishes. I wish I had your luck in bosses.

I'm not sure if you are talking about the general leeway most new employees get, or if you are saying you get a period of time as a brand new employee to point out everything you think is wrong in a matter of fact way. If the latter, I disagree.

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