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Oh, hey. You had a fully fleshed out backlog, some initial tracking, with a PO who actually wanted to know rather than just tell the business "everything is okay" and block his ears (knowing that failure to deliver will reflect dev, not him).

You had leaders who were willing to listen to facts rather than prioritize consensus (which brings with it the belief that because you were the dissenting voice in the room demonstrates you're divisive and a problem).

You landed in a really good culture, just one that hadn't faced reality yet. You've yet to plumb the depths of corporate America. :P

> You landed in a really good culture

Here's the crux of the matter. Your approach needs to be tailored to the culture you're in. The higher up in the leadership chain you go, the more important your understanding of the political machinations of your company is.

All corporations have politics, even the smallest startups. Some are just more cutthroat/feudal/kafkaesque than others.

Once you realize you are at a company where telling the truth leads to a negative consequence (an incompetent manager hired after the truth told. Their first time managing a department. The department did not previously exist in the enterprise. The department is specifically to roll out a technology they have never worked with before throughout a large company.

Lets say you were in charge of the project, are intimately familiar with the technology, and had a clear plan that would lead to success but upper management wasn't happy with the timeline. Their goal seems to be to quickly complete this project to display it as a "win".

Now the new manager was brought in, does not understand or care to understand the complexity of the project, and just keeps asking "when will it be done". Then got tired of that and changed to have it done in 2 weeks which is unreasonable, and then gave you an entirely false, negative performance review based on information they apparently forgot to actually verify or they would have known it was already complete and the people who were on the receiving end of the product are incredibly happy.

HR is asking for a meeting to discuss, what do you do? Tell HR about the depth of the incompetence Tell HR you weren't getting support from upper management Tell HR to look into what on earth was the reason this specific manager was selected.

or

GTFO?

This is a real life circumstance I am dealing with. I believe in the technology but unless changes are made it will be a guaranteed failure. Upper management likes the technology and really wants success here, but I know it wont happen unless then changes are made, and the people between the senior executives and me are making it impossible to be a success.

If you're being made into a fall-guy, then GTFO is likely your only solution.

Be careful with the 'depths of incompetence' stuff. It's assigning judgement and value to the people you're working with. That may be valid (or it may not!), but it doesn't help you professionally. Try not to assume you know why they do what they do, just deal with situation as it is. Telling HR about how bad everyone else is simply won't help you at all.

Your strongest arguments would be:

* The well-documented original plan vs. what has actually happened.

* The factual discrepancy between your performance review and reality. Emphasize positive feedback, and get them to advocate on your behalf if possible.

If someone cares enough to sift through all this, they might figure it out and save you, but chances are good that it won't happen. Having a plan B seems quite prudent.

If its gone to HR its already gone pear-shaped. Lay down the facts as you see them, let them know exactly what happened, tell the truth.

If they take it out on you, you know its time to go, but maybe this guy has been pissing other people off and you have no idea about it. Maybe its HR doing due diligence to fire.

Don't make accusations or shit on anyone, you don't know the whole story. Play to your strengths, which is knowing the tech and what it takes to get it to where it needs to be. Make sure you point out your attempts to communicate this fact. Provide any evidence of this- emails, etc. where you're communicating the state of the project and your projections for it. Let them know you've been frustrated with the miscommunication, but make sure that the miscommunication has started with you.

Again, don't shit on anyone. Stick the facts, so that if it blows up in your face it says more about them than it did about you. Its also the kind of resolution I'd I want to see on the interviewer side of "How did you resolve a difficult situation".

Thanks, it is progressing as expected. The only shitting on that was done involved providing repeated examples of attempts to get clarity or schedule meetings that were repeatedly ignored or cancelled at the last minute (which the supervisor for some reason told HR I was the one cancelling). Didn't call into question their competence, just provided support for my side from others, and examples of where the review was completely falsified. Spoke with CLO prior to all of this who is a mentor of mine and is incredibly upset with the treatment I received and says company will provide severance and recommendations if they can't find a suitable location in another department internally.

If you're the tech lead, you have to insist on it. I can give a thumb in the air guess based on an ask, but it's pretty subjective. Step 1 before giving a commitment is to ask for a few weeks of analysis. Get that high-level backlog.

I should say that I've learned this over many years, but have applied it at the highest levels of corporate America and it does work. If you present an estimate _with evidence_ it makes it so much harder for even the most grizzled IT exec to argue against you. Most are still used to thumbs in the air so if you give them something tangible, they will actually love it.

This is how things should run if the work culture was logic based but with rare exceptions it isn't.

As a borderline autistic person I have a very direct communication style and lost account of how many times I burned myself for failing to "beat around the bush".

You can't say "the project is doomed" even if it is true. You can't say it will be so over budget and take so long that it would be better to cut the losses now. Don't expect to go unpunished for saying "the king is nude".

According to my experience both parents are absolutely right, but the first is how most organizations work and the second is an ideal seldom found in the real world.

PS: you do get some leeway when you just joined a company, enjoy your honeymoon grace period.

Depends on the circumstances you joined the company.

In some, you actually have to "earn your place" in the company, and most recommendations I've seen are "keep quiet and listen".

Absolutely.

I'm about 3 months in at a new company and starting to see areas for improvement. I just make a note and keep my mouth shut. In another 3-6 months I'll have earned the right to start diplomatically suggesting some of my ideas. For now i just try to understand the thinking that went into decisions that resulted in our current state.

If you want to go into a new organization and "be disruptive" and you're not a management consultant, be prepared for the likely outcome of failure.

Nope. It will tar you forever amongst anyone you say it to as someone with a bad attitude, divisive, etc. I spent three years at a company where a VP basically viewed me dimly (if, admittedly, necessary) because I delivered bad news early on. It was polite and reasonable, but he was in a difficult place, had people actively whispering "Everything is fine" in his ear, and so when it eventually did blow up (and I was one of the ones who swooped in to fix everything ASAP), it was less "I should have listened" and more "(I) just added to (his) pain".

Attitude is important. Like I said, deliver this news as though it's inescapable objective reality. Akin to saying we can't have a picnic because it's raining. It's nobody's fault and it's not due to anyone's shortcomings. Estimating is hard, building good software takes time. This is how much time this project will take. Let us know evaluate the impact and decide how to cope. It doesn't need to be an argument.

It wasn't an argument. It was a messenger bringing bad news they didn't want to hear. And with other messengers who were actively telling him untruths about reality. And he wasn't sufficiently technical to go evaluate the claims himself; he -had- to decide who to listen to. So, unsurprisingly, he listened to the one that felt better.

You seem to believe that everyone is mature enough to hear bad news, delivered objectively, and accept it without blaming the messenger, and without dismissing it because it doesn't conform to their wishes. I wish I had your luck in bosses.

I'm not sure if you are talking about the general leeway most new employees get, or if you are saying you get a period of time as a brand new employee to point out everything you think is wrong in a matter of fact way. If the latter, I disagree.

> Just be real.

This works pretty well in smaller companies or startups, but corporate culture is usually political enough that it would be a disaster for your career.

> Then just ask how they want to deal with it.

Disagree. Anytime you find a problem you should come up with at least two solutions before you bring it to leadership. Managers hate people that only come to them with problems. You're closest to the project and you should be the one to know the situation and possible solutions.

Anytime you find a problem you should come up with at least two solutions before you bring it to leadership.

Yes. I think many people who believe they were punished for delivering bad news were actually punished for not offering ways to solve the problem. It's easy to simply say, "the project is doomed" and leave the problem in management's lap; much harder to come up with creative ways to rescue a bad situation.

Being real can be a massive mistake when management is more concerned with preserving management than revenue. It's pretty common, and experienced managers are way better at getting you out than at fixing problems. (Well, they see it as one and the same)

> One time we had even already signed a fixed-bid contract before I was able to give them an estimate.

Only one time?? Are you hiring? :)